Friday, January 01, 2010
Does God evolve?
Colorado
Non-exhaustive thoughts on process theology and panentheism
Summary upon request:
Please consider that with posts like this one, I deal with some of the material in the comments section as well. As in I provide more opinions. Cheers. Whitehead, like Brightman, Mill, and James, along with others reason the God of the Bible needs to be abandoned for concepts of a finite, developing progressing God. This work is edited from my PhD and is mainly descriptive although I do point out some difficulties with the views as I postulate Biblical, Reformed doctrines and therefore hold to a traditional view of the nature of God.
Jeff Jenkins of the Thoughts and Theology blogs is responsible for the fine art work.
Jenkins
Process Theism: Alfred North Whitehead
David Viney (2008) suggests that Edgar Sheffield Brightman is one of the twentieth century proponents of Process theism.[1] Although Brightman’s views were primarily independently made, process theism refers to a general group of theological concepts attributed to Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947)[2] and Charles Hartshorne (1897-2000).[3]
Whitehead is the more preeminent exemplar and within Process and Reality (1927-1929)(1957) explains he desired to complete an account of humanity and its experience in relation to philosophical problems.[4] In Religion In The Making (1926) Whitehead explains it is legitimate to attempt with a more definite knowledge of metaphysics, to interpret human experience, but these general principles must be amplified and adapted into one general system of truth.[5]
Whitehead disagreed with a traditional view of a ‘transcendent creator, at whose fiat the world came into being, and whose imposed will it obeys.’[6] The nature of God needed to be philosophically constructed anew.[7] A balance is sought between God’s immanence and transcendence, and a concept of static transcendence is rejected as instead God is understood to have a evolutionary transcendence. God and the physical realm are immanent with each other and God’s transcendence means their realities are not identical and not always determined by each other.[8] God is fully reasoned to be involved and influenced by temporal events and processes.[9] These processes unfold as sequences of events over time. God, contrary to classic and traditional Christian theism is finite, temporal, changeable and experiences intense emotion, pain and sadness. Whitehead explains that ‘It is not true that God is on all respects infinite.’[10] Process theology is a philosophical approach that does not rely on any kind of divine revelation.[11] Instead it relies on a process of change over time as a theory of metaphysics.[12] God’s actual concrete nature is responsive and influenced by the processes that take in the world, and therefore God is limited. Some things are unknowable for God, that he only can realize as they happen, and as these new things develop God’s knowledge processes over time. Divine sovereignty is questionable and certainly no longer absolute within this system.
Whitehead, a mathematician and philosopher, established a speculative philosophy of metaphysics within a scientific non-metaphysical reality.[13] This system is an attempt to adequately explain all individual beings in existence, including God.[14] Basically a system of metaphysics needed to be developed that would work with modern scientific theories and reality, and therefore God was not a ‘static essence’ but a process.[15] The ‘actual entities’[16] that make up this process are non-permanent and transient and each action and activity is dipolar having a physical pole of the past and a mental pole which is a possibility that can be achieved.[17] The physical pole feels the physical reality of actual entity, while the mental pole feels or prehends as Whitehead calls it, the eternal objects by which actual entities have conceptual definiteness.[18] These physical and mental poles are an aspect of every real being/actual entities although they are not real things themselves.[19]
Prehends is the feeling of grasping the physical and conceptual information concerning actual entities.[20] This will occur within a stream and series of occasions.[21] All occurrences take place within the process of these actual entities.[22] Each event is partially self-created and partially influenced by other occasions and entities.[23] God is also dipolar[24] and his nontemporal pole is where God conceives the infinite variety of external objects and sees the possibilities and provides the opportunity for the process of becoming. God is an actual entity and being.[25] God has a primordial nature and consequent nature, with the primordial being conceptual, while the consequent nature is God as conscious.[26] Whitehead explains that the ‘consequent nature is the weaving of God’s physical feelings upon his primordial concepts.’[27] God’s primordial conceptual nature is infinite and does not have negative prehension/feelings, and is eternal and unconscious.[28] This nature is permanent as God works out endless possibilities.[29] God in his vision can determine every possibility and adjust details where needed.[30] The consequent nature of God originates with physical experience with the material temporal world and it is integrated with the primordial conceptual nature.[31] The consequent nature as conscious is determined, finite and incomplete.[32] These two aspects of God’s deity can be distinguished but are inseparable.[33] This consequent conscious nature had God constantly acquiring new experiences.[34]
A problem arises that if God’s primordial nature is eternal and unconscious[35] it precedes the consequent nature that is temporal and has consciousness. I question whether an unconscious deity would in any way proceed to a conscious temporal reality. Where did God’s consciousness come from? I reason consciousness would have to exist eternally to lead to a finite reality of consciousness.
Panentheism
Process theism approaches are sometimes referred to as being panentheistic. The two approaches are not identical but process theism moves in the direction of panentheism.[36] David H. Nikkel defines panentheism as from the Greek meaning ‘all is in God.’[37] Both God’s transcendence and immanence are accepted, as the world and matter is in God, and God is ‘all-encompassing with respect to being.’[38] Panentheism is not identical to pantheism which postulates that ‘God is identical with everything’ or that God is in everything and that God and the universe are one.[39] The difference being that panentheism understands ‘God is in all things’ but not identical with all things as with pantheism. As example, God in pantheism may be considered to be equal with a tree. God in panentheism may be considered beyond the tree, but the vital force within it, whereas in my traditional Christian theistic understanding God is beyond a tree and sustains it, but is not the vital force within it. Panentheism attempts to ‘avoid the pitfalls’ of traditional theism.[40] Panentheism can reasonably be understood as an overarching view within many process theism approaches which I have contrasted with my own views.
BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
DIEHL, DAVID W. (1996) ‘Process Theology’, in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.
GRENZ, STANLEY J. AND ROGER E. OLSON (1992) Twentieth Century Theology, Downers Grove, Illinois, InterVarsity Press.
NIKKEL, DAVID H. (2003) ‘Panentheism’, in Encyclopedia of Science and Religion, MacMillan Reference USA, New York.
VINEY, DAVID (2008) ‘Process Theism’, in Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Palo Alto, California, Stanford University.
WHITEHEAD, ALFRED NORTH (1926) Religion in the Making, New York, The MacMillan Company.
WHITEHEAD, ALFRED NORTH (1927-1929)(1957) Process and Reality, New York, The Free Press/MacMillan Publishing Company, Incorporated.
WHITEHEAD, ALFRED NORTH (1967)(1986) ‘Adventures of Ideas’, in Forest Wood JR., Whiteheadian Thought as a Basis for a Philosophy of Religion, University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg, University Press of America, Inc.
________________________________________
[1] Viney (2008: 35).
[2] Viney (2008: 1).
[3] Viney (2008: 1).
[4] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: vi).
[5] Whitehead (1926: 149).
[6] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 404).
[7] Whitehead (1926: 150).
[8] Viney (2008: 10).
[9] Viney (2008: 1).
[10] Whitehead (1926: 153). Whitehead claims that if God was infinite in all ways this would make him as infinitely evil as he is good. I doubt logically and reasonably that an infinitely holy and good God could at the same time be infinitely evil and so I can grant Whitehead half a point here. However, God could still be infinite completely in nature and willingly allow evil to exist within his creation. I definitely agree with Whitehead that an infinitely good and evil God would be a God of nothingness. Whitehead (1926: 153). I doubt this being could logically exist.
[11] Viney (2008: 1).
[12] Viney (2008: 1).
[13] Grenz and Olsen (1992: 135).
[14] Diehl (1996: 881).
[15] Grenz and Olsen (1992: 135).
[16] Grenz and Olsen (1992: 135).
[17] Grenz and Olsen (1992: 136).
[18] Diehl (1996: 881). Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[19] Viney (2008: 8).
[20] Diehl (1996: 881). Viney (2008: 9).
[21] Grenz and Olsen (1992: 136).
[22] Diehl (1996: 881).
[23] Diehl (1996: 881).
[24] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[25] Viney (2008: 9).
[26] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[27] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[28] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[29] Viney (2008: 9).
[30] Whitehead (1926: 153-154).
[31] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[32] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[33] Viney (2008: 9).
[34] Viney (2008: 9).
[35] Whitehead (1927-1929)(1957: 407).
[36] Grenz and Olsen (1992: 142). I am not stating that this is the case in every documented view of process theism, but it is generally true that the two views are closely related.
[37] Nikkel (2003: 1).
[38] Nikkel (2003: 1).
[39] Blackburn (1996: 276). Blackburn also explains Benedictus de Spinoza (1632-1677) is noted for this view within Western philosophy
[40] Nikkel (2003: 1).
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It's a hard knock life
ReplyDeletefor Russ
It's a hard knock life
for Russ
His reviewers
can't agree
Still waitin' for the
PhD
It's a hard knock life
I wonder if this poster could be used for a UFC main event?
ReplyDelete-Kick Flick-
There is always a place for Russ
ReplyDeleteon Candy Mountain in Friendly Land!
-Sugar Sam-
Deep article...Seems to me, that God was and is and always will be and a Being that has a full personality very similar to ours, after all, aren't we like God, Not God like us, since God is Creator and God's existence is infinite and ours finite?
ReplyDelete-Thoughts to Ponder-
It's been a hard day's fight
ReplyDeleteAnd I've been working on my blog
It's been a hard day's fight
And now I'm lookin' for a job
But when I get home to you
You know the things blog trolls do
Don't make me feel alright
Man, did I sleep through New Year's again?
ReplyDeleteYour post says, Friday, Jan 1, 2010.
Russ, I have to confess, I have no ability to pretend I am following you in this post.
You are discussing three different men giving their opinions of what God is or what God did to create the world. But, all of the jumping from one reference to another gives me trouble in following you.
Can you give me a head start with a sumary and I will go back and read it again.
There is a place for Wuss? Somewhere a place for Puss (Uncle)? Peace, quiet and no hot air. Somewhere (Over the Rainbow).
ReplyDelete'Deep article...Seems to me, that God was and is and always will be and a Being that has a full personality very similar to ours, after all, aren't we like God, Not God like us, since God is Creator and God's existence is infinite and ours finite?
ReplyDelete-Thoughts to Ponder-'
Yes, I reason a non-conscious deity cannot create anything.
Thanks, my friend.
'It's been a hard day's fight
ReplyDeleteAnd I've been working on my blog
It's been a hard day's fight
And now I'm lookin' for a job
But when I get home to you
You know the things blog trolls do
Don't make me feel alright'
Okay, I posted this song from LP on Facebook, and prefer the sound of LP over CD it seems. Although I do not like the 'pop' sounds from the vinyl.
Circumstances
'Man, did I sleep through New Year's again?
ReplyDeleteYour post says, Friday, Jan 1, 2010.'
Hi, Jim.
Well, this a PhD edit.
I desire to do two posts a month per blog and therefore I found a way to post an article from the next month...early.
'Russ, I have to confess, I have no ability to pretend I am following you in this post.
You are discussing three different men giving their opinions of what God is or what God did to create the world. But, all of the jumping from one reference to another gives me trouble in following you.
Can you give me a head start with a sumary and I will go back and read it again.'
Okay, I will do a short summary.
Merry (belated) Christmas, Russ!
ReplyDeleteWe're heading back home in a few minutes and I've finally gotten a computer to use.
I look forward to catching up on my reading and commenting.
Have a Happy New Year!!
GGM
Cool my friend.
ReplyDeleteHappy New Year, GGM.
It is not humanly possible for man to understand the Deity of God and who He is in totality. We are mortal beings with finite minds. He is not. It can be very interesting to reason and think upon these ideas and questions tho. What some of these Scholars have to say is very intrigueing, but they have to make me laugh, because they state things about God as a matter of fact and this is the way it is.. WOW! one day they are going to be really surprised at how much they really didn't know about God. Thanks for sharing this kind of stuff though Russ it just helps to confirm to me just how awesome God truly is.
ReplyDeleteTamela :)
'It is not humanly possible for man to understand the Deity of God and who He is in totality. We are mortal beings with finite minds.'
ReplyDeleteExactly.
'He is not. It can be very interesting to reason and think upon these ideas and questions tho. What some of these Scholars have to say is very intrigueing, but they have to make me laugh, because they state things about God as a matter of fact and this is the way it is.. WOW! one day they are going to be really surprised at how much they really didn't know about God. Thanks for sharing this kind of stuff though Russ it just helps to confirm to me just how awesome God truly is.'
It is assumed:
Scripture is not revealed by God in a traditional sense.
Scripture is not inerrant.
God is reinterpreted.
Thanks very much, Tamela.
Actually since I warn against it, I do not receive many troll attacks. But of course persons are free to disagree with me on thekingpin68 and satire and theology, and some blogging friends have at times. Sometimes critics like to email me and avoid the public discussion.
ReplyDeleteYou Tube is brutal for troll attacks and if I ever post there comments will be disabled.
There are attractive women on there that post sometimes and they receive these horrible comments at times because they are not supermodels.
According to Mormons, God is an evolved man, and is made of flesh and blood, and if He were to walk among us, we would not see any difference between him and any regular man. Of course, Mormons will not tell you that when they come to your door.
ReplyDeleteIslam teaches monism (which contradicts with the trinitarian belief of Christians). I'm not sure whether that conflicts with panentheism or not.
ReplyDeleteSome things are unknowable for God, that he only can realize as they happen, and as these new things develop God’s knowledge processes over time.
ReplyDeleteIf this were true, then of course God would not be omniscient.
If God is evolving, then I would think that would mean there must be something greater than God, so I would then ask, 'So who created God?' In fact, an Atheist asked me this exact question one time.
ReplyDeleteWell stated, concerning the LDS, Jeff.
ReplyDelete'Islam teaches monism (which contradicts with the trinitarian belief of Christians). I'm not sure whether that conflicts with panentheism or not.'
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I am not expert.
I came across panentheism primarily in the context of philosophy of religion and a cultural Christian context.
'Some things are unknowable for God, that he only can realize as they happen, and as these new things develop God’s knowledge processes over time.
ReplyDeleteIf this were true, then of course God would not be omniscient.'
Yes, thanks, Jeff.
Even without actual omnipotence (my view is that God has this) I reason God's deduction skills concerning his creation would give him virtual omnipotence.
'If God is evolving, then I would think that would mean there must be something greater than God, so I would then ask, 'So who created God?' In fact, an Atheist asked me this exact question one time.'
ReplyDeleteThere is the need for an infinite, eternal, first cause.
Cheers.:)
Good research Jeff, concerning racism and Islam.
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comments so far today.
I just now learned something from watching Day of Discovery on TV. When a baby lamb was born, its destiny was to be a sacrifice. So, as soon as it was born, so that it would not break any of its legs in its struggle (which would disqualify it from being a 'spotless' and 'perfect' sacrifice, since there had to be nothing wrong with the sacrifice), they would reach in and pull it out of its mother's womb and immediately wrap it tightly in swaddling cloths, so that it could not kick and flail around. Then, they would lay it down until it had calmed down, and when it was completely calm, they would unwrap it, and let it walk off to its mother. Luke 2:12 (KJV) says, "And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger."
ReplyDeleteFrom a website called Prophecy Today, I found the following, which is interesting:
"Our key verse is an interesting statement, "and this shall be a 'sign' unto you." And then Dr. Luke records what the angel said to the shepherds, that they would find the newborn babe, God-man, Jesus Christ, "in a manger wrapped in swaddling clothes".
For the longest time I could not understand why that would be a "sign" to the shepherds. Then one day I ran across a comment about the connection to the "sign" and a special location in the Shepherd's Fields called the "tower of the flock". In the Hebrew, the phrase is, "Migdal Edar." "Migdal" is Hebrew for "tower" and "Edar" is "flock" in the Hebrew language. The phrase is only used twice in the Bible - Genesis 35:21 and Micah 4:8.
In the Genesis passage, "Migdal Edar" is referring to the location where Jacob pitched his tent after he buried his wife Rachel who had died in childbirth. "Migdal Edar" is on the road between Bethlehem, where Rachel was buried, and the city of Jerusalem, which is only three miles away. The other mention of "Migdal Edar" or "tower of the flock" in Micah 4:8 is a prophecy of the announcement of the Messiah which would be at "Migdal Edar".
I must tell you that "Migdal Edar" was a "watchtower" in the Shepherd's Fields of Bethlehem. It was a two-story stone structure out in the fields. On the top story, a priestly shepherd would stand watching over the flock, to make certain that the sheep were not being harmed.
Remember, the sheep raised in the Shepherd's Fields of Bethlehem were destined for the Temple sacrifice three miles away. These sheep must be without blemish and spot, perfect, in order to be sacrificed.
The bottom floor of "Migdal Edar" was for the birthing of these lambs. And from the beginning, they must be perfect. The shepherd would take the newborn lamb and wrap it in "swaddling clothes" to keep it from harming its limbs. After wrapping the baby lamb, the shepherd would lay it in a "manger" until the newborn lamb had calmed down.
The shepherds knew this procedure and, when told it would be a "sign", they recalled Micah 4:8 and with haste, Luke 2:16, ran to see the newborn Jesus, the Son of God at "Migdal Edar"."
Interest, Jeff.
ReplyDelete'These sheep must be without blemish and spot, perfect, in order to be sacrificed.'
A type of Christ, in a sense.
Well, homosexuality is not much of debate here in Canada anymore...
ReplyDeleteI stated this on my Facebook page:
ReplyDeleteSome women online are interesting, but a danger for me and some others of both sexes is putting too much hope into someone before meeting a person, and sometimes too much negativity. It is up to God to match persons up and God would do this by having two people meet in person and get to know each other. As I look for work, once I have my PhD my time online will become less. I need to meet women in person far more.
Happy New year. I'll be ringing the bell a few hours before you. Isn't that cool to think that I can literally call you on the phone and celebrate the turning of the calendar why you are still in 2009?
ReplyDeleteTrue, and then there are the folks in Hawaii.
ReplyDeleteRuss:)
Happy New Year, Jim and family.
Ah ha ha ha...love the pics Jeff did of you & Howie & your mom boxing...awesome...especially your mom!! :)
ReplyDeleteWell of course, that is not really my Mom.
ReplyDeleteThanks very much, Lucy.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate you reading my blog.
I have some experience with toddler girls with my nieces and friend's little girls. They can be very cute!
Russ;)
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