Friday, July 01, 2011

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) The ‘Limited God’ PhD Edit

A. John Stuart Mill (1806-1873) The ‘Limited God’ PhD Edit

Annecy, France (trekearth.com)

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873), Wilson (2007: 1) is a well-known British philosopher, economist, political and social theorist, and empiricist. Fred Wilson suggests Mill’s views on empiricism and liberal political views on society and culture are among the most effective in modern thought. Wilson (2007: 1). 

Blackburn states Mill is ‘the most influential liberal thinker of the nineteenth century.’ Blackburn (1996: 243). He is the son of Scottish philosopher James Mill (1773-1836). Carey (2002: 115). 

George W. Carey (2002) writes that John Stuart Mill reasoned that traditional Christianity needed to be replaced and Mill introduced a concept of a ‘limited God.’ Carey (2002: 115). Mill reasons there is a ‘final cause’ that appears to be God working within the natural order, Mill (1833)(1985)(2009: 7). But this God was not omnipotent and had limited powers that were incapable of bringing about the full reality of what God wanted. Mill within Theism from 1833 explains that there could be no real belief in a ‘Creator and Governor’ until humankind had begun to understand the confused phenomena which existed around them. Carey (2002: 116). Humanity must bring itself out of the chaos and confusion of reality to have a workable system in able to work out ‘a single plan.’ Mill (1833)(1985)(2009: 6). This type of world was anticipated ‘by individuals of exceptional genius’ but could only become true after a long period of scientific examination and thought. Mill (1833)(1985)(2009: 6). Mill desired to replace the God of Christianity with a Religion of Humanity. Mill (1874)(2002: 16). He reasoned traditional Christianity had been overrated in its promotion of human virtue and morality in society. Carey (2002: 114).The Christian God was not the actual creator of the world.

Mill theorized of a God that resembled the ‘Platonic Demiurge.’ A demiurge is a Greek term meaning ‘artisan’, ‘craftsman.’ It is a deity that develops the material world from ‘preexisting chaos.’ Plato introduced the concept and term in his text Timaeus. The perfectly good demiurge wishes to present his goodness and shapes the chaos as best he can, and the present world results. Wainwright (1996: 188). The demiurge is a limited, non-omnipotent God, that did not create original matter. Wainwright (1996: 188). Blackburn (1996: 98). This God did not measure up to the highest human morality and was not concerned with the greatest possible happiness for the greatest possible number of human beings. Carey (2002: 116). Mill likely thought Christianity was a false religion which limited the freedom of persons. Gordon (2000: 2).

Since God was so limited, it was up to humanity to bring about greater human happiness. However, Mill still reasoned that God as is, without omnipotence, would have intelligence and power beyond that of human beings. Mill (1833)(1985)(2009: 24). Mill embraced a type of secular altruism and a selfless concern for society as a whole as opposed to concerns with personal salvation for the typical person. Within Mill’s philosophy there was room within the world for human beings to improve it and the for persons within it to improve. Mill desires to philosophically develop a positive view on the material universe and the place of human beings within it. Within The Utility of Religion which was published in 1874, after his death in 1873, Mill reasons the improvements that have taken place in humanity and that will continue to proceed over time should produce religion with the best human morality. Mill (1874)(2002: 3).

The religious goodness can be reasoned out from ‘philosophical, Christian, or any other elements.’ Mill (1874)(2002: 3). Modern religion, once it has freed itself from the questionable consequences of concepts of bad doctrine, can be examined for its philosophical usefulness. Religious belief should serve as an instrument of social goodness for humanity.

Mill’s views strike me as being influential within modern secular thought, and modern western religious concepts. I can support, in limited terms, human effort to understand reality and improve human conditions. Indeed humanity should come together as much as possible to develop a plan in order to benefit all of humanity. I would not support a ‘Religion of Humanity,’ but do favour persons of various religious and non-religious backgrounds working together for human benefit.

Mill rejects Christianity and traditional Christian doctrine concerning omnipotence. Mill’s deity is similar to the ‘Platonic Demiurge’ and this deity simply develops matter from preexisting chaos and therefore would not only be limited in power but also finite in nature. Mill supports a concept of a first cause idea: Mill (1833)(1985)(2009: 10), as in a series of events: Mill (1833)(1985)(2009: 7), but this leaves the nagging question and problem of what was the cause of the Demiurge? 

An infinite eternal God can be understood as the first cause not needing a cause. A finite deity, although admittedly logically possible, requires further explanation. If the being is not revealed through Scriptural revelation, it is a God of primarily philosophical speculation and requires further elaboration on the part of Mill in regard to, for instance, why humanity should believe in and follow this type of deity, assuming that there is not a greater, infinite, eternal first cause that would necessarily exist behind that being.

BARTH, KARL (1932-1968) Church Dogmatics, The Doctrine of Creation: Volumes 1 and 3. Translated by J.W. Edwards, Rev. O. Bussey, and Rev. Harold Knight, Edinburgh, T. and T. Clark.

BARTH, KARL (1932-1968) Church Dogmatics, The Doctrine of God: Volume 2, First Half –Volume, Translated by J.W. Edwards, Rev. O. Bussey, and Rev. Harold Knight, Edinburgh, T. and T. Clark.

BAVINCK, HERMAN (1918)(2006) Reformed Dogmatics Volume 2: God and Creation, John Bolt (gen.ed.), Translated by John Vriend, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids.

BAVINCK, HERMAN (1918)(2006) Reformed Dogmatics Volume 3: Sin and Salvation in Christ, John Bolt (gen.ed.), Translated by John Vriend, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids.

BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.

CAREY, GEORGE W. (2002) ‘The Authoritarian Secularism of John Stuart Mill’, in On Raeder’s Mill and the Religion of Humanity, Volume 15, Number 1, Columbia, University of Missouri Press.

FRAME, JOHN M. (2002) The Doctrine of God, P and R Publishing, Phillipsburg, New Jersey.

GORDON, DAVID (2000) ‘John Stuart Mill on Liberty and Control’, in The Mises Review, Volume 6, Number 1, Auburn, Alabama, Ludwig Von Mises Institute.

MILL, JOHN STUART (1789-1861)(2003) Utilitarianism and On Liberty, Mary Warnock (ed.), Blackwell Publishing, Oxford.

MILL, JOHN STUART (1825-1868)(1984) Essays on Equality, Law, and Education, John M. Robson (ed.), University of Toronto Press, Toronto, University of Toronto Press.

MILL, JOHN STUART (1833)(1985)(2009) Theism: John Stuart Mill The Collected Works of John Stuart Mill, Volume X - Essays on Ethics, Religion, and Society, Toronto, University of Toronto Press.

MILL, JOHN STUART (1874)(2002) The Utility of Religion, London, Longman, Green, and Reader.

MILL, JOHN STUART (1874)(1885) Nature the Utility of Religion and Theism, London, Longmans, Green and Co.

POJMAN, LOUIS P. (1996) Philosophy: The Quest for Truth, New York, Wadsworth Publishing Company.

SHEDD, WILLIAM G.T. (1874-1890)(1980) Dogmatic Theology, Volume 1, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Publishers.

SHEDD, WILLIAM G.T. (1874-1890)(1980) Dogmatic Theology, Volume 2, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Publishers.

WAINWRIGHT, WILLIAM J. (1996) ’Demiurge’, in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.

WILSON, FRED (1996) ‘James Mill’, in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press. 

WILSON, FRED (1996) ‘John Stuart Mill’, in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.

WILSON, FRED (2007) ‘John Stuart Mill’, in Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Palo Alto, California, Stanford University.


Saint-Etienne, France (trekearth.com)


San Francisco, California (trekearth.com)


Castletown-Tower, Dundalk, Ireland (trekearth.com)

July 2, 2011: Understanding the Problem of Evil


This graph is from my PhD. It is perhaps useful is regard to understanding on a small scale how people may learn about the problem of evil.

Saturday, September 19, 2020: PhD Full Version PDF: Theodicy and Practical Theology 2010, Wales TSD
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This article was originally published July 7, 2011, and is edited from my PhD thesis. The article was later revised, deleting some additional non-related content, for an entry on academia.edu on November 4, 2023.

32 comments:

  1. Mill's "demiurge" seems to fulfill no real purpose in the end. It just seems an impersonal, fantastical way of describing natural processes that can be more precisely described by science. And as you say, it leaves the question of first cause unanswered.

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  2. Have you heard of the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixvi4sQx-aA&feature=related>all-American prophet</a>?

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  3. When I was studying philosophy regularly I actually liked Mill's empirical structures. As a Clarkian/presuppositionalist, I tended to follow Clark's critique of Empiricism, but I still enjoyed Mill's arguments and found myself somewhat sympathetic to it. However, I completely reject his understanding of God and I don't think it necessarily follows from Empiricism...even his own brand. He is a great thinker, though, and worthy of reading.

    I own this and a few other Rush DVD's. I have Rush: R30, Chronicles, Rush in Rio, and Replay. All of these are incredible. They really put out a first-rate product and they are, as you know, a first-rate band!

    GGM

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  4. I was required to do the work on Mill for my post-Viva PhD revisions. It was useful, I admit. He is an important philosophical writer in regard to the limited God and other.

    That was the eight time I have seen Rush, the fifth time in Vancouver, and I have seen them three times in the USA including once in Northern California. The shows have generally been getting better.

    But too smokey dopey in the stadium.

    Blessings Great Googled Man, good to see you on here again. My nieces are up here with kids from Arizona and they are going back in a few days and then in a couple of weeks my brother and family are heading here from AZ. A neigbouring state of yours of course...

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  5. I lived in Maine for about 17 years, so I found this to be super funny.

    MISSING MAINE WIFE

    The day after his wife disappeared in a kayaking accident off the coast of Maine , a man answered his door to find two grim-faced State Troopers. "We know it's late, sir, but we have some information about your wife," said one of the Troopers.

    "Tell me! Did you find her!?" the husband shouted.

    The Troopers looked at each other. One said, "We have some bad news, some good news, and some really great news. Which do you want to hear first?"
    Fearing the worst, the ashen husband said "Give me the bad news first."
    The second Trooper said, "I'm sorry to tell you, sir, but this morning we found your wife's body in the bay."
    "Oh my God!" exclaimed the husband.

    Swallowing hard, he asked, "What's the good news?"
    The Trooper continued, "When we pulled her up, she had 6 twenty-five pound snow crabs and 12 good-size lobsters clinging to her."
    Stunned, the husband demanded, "If that's the good news, what's the great news???"

    The Trooper answered, "We're gonna pull her up again tomorrow."

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  6. And how many years have you been married, Rick?;)

    Thanks my friend.

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  7. Darn, my html got messed up.
    2nd try.
    Have you heard of the all-American prophet?

    (The link points to one of the songs in Parker & Stone's musical "The Book of Mormon")

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  8. From a Facebook Friend:
    "My website has a 52 language translate function, must be why I get visits from over 84 countries.
    http://vinienco.com/

    *This is yesterdays traffic, data provided by Google analytics.."
    (He then displays a world map showing 1,556 visitors for yesterday)

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  9. 'Spreading the word on the encroachment of Global Islamism.
    vinienco.com'

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  10. Going on 18 years. I meet her 2 years prior, so 20 total, man am I getting old.

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  11. hey Russ,

    So good to hear that you are doing much better in your health.. keep up the good work and you will reach your goal before you know it..

    Take care
    Tammy :)

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  12. Yes, faith, reason and science working together.:)

    Thanks, Tammy.

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  13. Sounds like you went through a rough period with the operations. I hope you can stay active both physically and mentally!

    Thanks for the intro to John Stuart Mill. Looks like he pontificated on a lot of subjects.

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  14. Thanks, Looney, yes things are much improved as far as sleep apnea is concerned. This will be maintained.

    Mill was a useful scholar to have to work post-Viva revisions on.

    Happy Sunday.

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  15. Wow what tight playing from one of the greatest progressive rock groups of all time RUSH, very cool that they played Vancouver!
    -Fan Man-

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  16. I don't agree with John Stuart Mill, it seems he's proposing two gods and limiting one of them of their powers. This is contradictory to Scripture and a philosophic opinion at best.
    -Mumbo Jumbo-

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  17. Congrats on your sleep apnea update, health and well being are so important in this life, continue on...
    Peace, Health, and Happiness to you
    -Dr. Feel Good-

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  18. 'Anonymous said...
    Wow what tight playing from one of the greatest progressive rock groups of all time RUSH, very cool that they played Vancouver!
    -Fan Man-'

    Yes. I think they are working on completing the new album as they played two singles this past tour. Perhaps they will be back to Vancouver in 2012.

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  19. 'Anonymous said...
    I don't agree with John Stuart Mill, it seems he's proposing two gods and limiting one of them of their powers. This is contradictory to Scripture and a philosophic opinion at best.
    -Mumbo Jumbo'

    Reasonable.

    I hold to the Biblical God.

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  20. 'Anonymous said...
    Congrats on your sleep apnea update, health and well being are so important in this life, continue on...
    Peace, Health, and Happiness to you
    -Dr. Feel Good-'

    Thank you. It is good.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Today in the mail I received a "Certificate of Nomination for honorable service in the United States Armed Forces and for outstanding service and loyalty to the United States of America." It continues: "This certifies that Jeffrey Jenkins has met the strict requirements set forth by the Congress of the United States for membership in the American Legion." I laughed when I saw that in the mail today, because I have never served in the Armed Forces! (I did come close to joining the Marines, but was talked out of it.) And of course, if I actually applied for membership for the American Legion, I'm sure I would be turned down once they did more research, but still, I thought that was funny.

    Anyway, I taped the certificate to my refrigerator just for laughs.

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  22. A silly piece of mail, but something to make one laugh. Good for you.:)

    From Facebook, a former status update:

    In mail: new BC DL with b/w photo makes me look like a space alien, the University of Wales, TSD, formerly Lampeter which knows I cannot legally attend the PhD grad because I asked for them to send me the legal document still sends me form to attend the grad ceremony of July 8, BC government sends four HST voting packages two of which are for family members that moved to USA a decade ago, they never lived at address.

    Did my Civic duty and voted in the tax refererndum, as a moderate conservative I will comment that I wished there had been a no sales tax voting option because I think in BC we pay enough tax with income tax and other fees that govs. at least in theory should be able to get by without sales tax. But, that would take a major restructuring of gov. beyond political parties.

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  23. Hey, Russ, maybe you could promote a Philosophical/Theological weight loss/exercise program, using 'Before' and 'After' photos of yourself, and including your workouts and martial arts training. (OK, I'm half-kidding, but if you really wanted to do something like that, I'm sure you could.)

    But seriously, congrats on your slimmer and trimmer self. A good improvement to go along with your PhD.

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  24. But, Jeff, please don't hate me because I am beautiful.;)

    Thanks my friend.

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  25. Boa tarde gostaria de agradecer sua passagem em meu blog, ainda sou uma aprendiz nesse mundo virtual, e confesso que estou amando muito. E os erros, já estou corrigindo.
    Volte sempre a minha nova casa, minha arte de viver.
    Forte abraço.
    Atenciosamente: Jussara Costa

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  26. I was walking the streets of Maple 'Ditch' past Bobby Buff's townhouse today on a rare summer like day and one of his boys yells out of an open window that he has something for me. He runs downstairs and gives me this new comic book since I had given him some of my collection that was doubles.

    Comments?

    The Amazing Spider-Man 583

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  27. That was pretty sweet of the kid to give you some comic books.

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  28. Nice Comic, glad to see it has a rating of nine, Spidey meets the President!
    -Kool Komic-

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  29. Thank you friends.

    The following is a reply I left on a blog that also relates to my PhD work:

    Human nature is fallen and corrupt which is why persons need to be regenerated (Elected-Ephesians 1, Romans 8, Born again-John 3) to be acceptable to a holy God.

    Human nature is finite. Persons are a secondary cause of human actions, God being infinite is the primary cause of all things, although as he allows persons to be a secondary cause I do not believe he uses hard determinism but soft determinism or compatibilism.

    God does not force or coerce thoughts, choices, or actions in persons that they are held morally responsibly for.

    Therefore

    I believe in limited free will, but not in libertarian free will like is accepted in many evangelical circles for example.

    Further

    Human thoughts, choices and actions come from this will.

    (In reply to a question in regard to the use of free will and human actions)

    I suppose a person can often try to find someone or something else to blame.

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