Preface
Chateau near Paris, France (trekearth)
I have taken material from previous posts 'Infinite' and 'Infinite Revisited' edited some material and added some in for more of the 'finite' angle to be included.
I have taken material from previous posts 'Infinite' and 'Infinite Revisited' edited some material and added some in for more of the 'finite' angle to be included.
Infinite Versus Finite (God, Creation)
Philosopher Blackburn explains that the infinite is unlimited and that which is beyond anything that is fixed and bound. Blackburn (1996: 193). In contrast a ‘finite set’ (example used) is a set that stops at a point, somewhere. Blackburn (1996: 140). Brian Davies writes that the English word infinity comes from the Latin word ‘infinitas’, meaning boundless or endless. Davies (1999: 298). Davies states that some have ascribed the term infinity with various degrees of understanding of substance, time, space, the universe, numbers, and classes. Davies (1999: 298). He mentions that many philosophers have dealt with the issue of infinity through the centuries, but Biblically speaking there is not a doctrine of infinity. Davies (1999: 298). Biblically there is not a specific philosophical explanation of a doctrine of the infinite God. He explains that God's infinity is viewed as marking his perfection, and that God alone is understood as infinite. Davies (1999: 298). As one could count to the minus and to the plus to infinity, numbers could be considered infinite in a sense, but are not ontological living beings. As God is uncreated and uncreatable, he is alone is infinite ontologically. God would not be limited by time and space, and so in another sense created matter and space would be considered finite and not infinite within traditional Christian thought. God would be superior to all creatures and would be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal. Davies (1999: 298). Davies notes that process theology has postulated that God's personal nature means that he can change as he works within created time. Davies (1999: 228). Process theology reasons that God possibly develops in personality as he deals with his created beings. Davies (1999: 228).
It could be stated that if God's nature can be changed and develop within time, then he is not infinite, but rather the most advanced finite being in existence. A finite being that is beyond matter, space and time, perhaps. I reject process theology's notion of a finite God, for at least the following reasons.
It could be argued that if God is not infinite then he cannot posses any infinite attributes, and this would prohibit God from being eternal. To be eternal would mean that one has unlimited life. If God is not eternal, then how did God come to exist? If there was a God that created God and so on, there is the problem of vicious regress in which there are a hypothetical infinite regressions of Gods. If it is suggested at some point the regression ends, why cannot one simply reject the vicious regress and state that the Biblical God, or a God, is the only God? To state that God simply came to exist from nothing does not seem reasonable, and the suggestion answers nothing. If God is merely finite, then one has a problem of determining the first cause. A reasonable explanation is that God prior to time eternally was and eternally is today.
Many scientists and scholars reason that the universe is 15-20 billion years old, and believe in a 'Big Bang Theory'. Whether the universe is billions, millions, or thousands of years is not the primary concern of this article, but with a big bang model or like, the universe in agreement with the Bible, is not eternal. Billions, millions, or thousands of years is more time than any of human being, only living 100+ years maximum in the modern age can comprehend and may be considered perhaps from a human perspective, virtual eternity, but is not actual eternity, and therefore is not infinite. Since God created matter, time and space in Genesis, Chapter 1, it is clear that nothing within the material, physical realm existed prior to creation. This would leave God, and perhaps the angelic beings prior to the existence of matter, time (solar time at least) and space. It can be deduced that angels cannot be infinite in nature, because if they were limitless in nature they would themselves be God. It can be reasoned there are two or more limitless beings by definition as they simply would be an aspect of one infinite, eternal God of one substance. Thiessen notes angels are not eternal although the Bible does not state when they were created. Thiessen (1956: 191).
Thiessen thinks angels may have been formed at the Genesis 1 creation or just after. Thiessen (1956: 191). I would of course have no definite idea, but think that angels were created within some type of time, not solar time. I do not reason that angels existed in a timeless state with God. I would deduce that even non-physical finite spiritual beings must exist within time, although not necessarily within physical matter, time and space, in order to process thought patterns, as God alone is all-knowing and does not need to process thoughts within time. I would conclude this point by stating that God alone existed before the creation of matter, time and space and angelic beings. Again, God eternally simply was and is.
I suppose it possible and perhaps reasonable for God to instantaneously provide angelic beings with information in a timeless state, and at the same time I deduce information would also have to be available for demonic beings in the spiritual realm if time does not exist there, in order for them to function as the Bible has them. I am not meaning solar time, but time allotted for a finite spiritual being to process thoughts. For example, angels to process instructions from God and communicate and for demonic beings to communicate.
I reason a timeless state is more difficult philosophically as in likely being correct than a spiritual realm of some sort with time where angels and demons would work.
Millard J. Erickson discusses the Scriptural concept of God's existence in contrast to that of his creation. In Acts 17: 24-25 it states that God does not dwell physically, but is the creator of everything. Erickson notes that God is called the first and last in Isaiah 44: 6, and the Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:8, 21:6, and 22:13. The idea being shown here is that God has always existed and will always exist. Erickson (1994: 273-274).
As pointed out previously, before the creation of matter and the angels nothing else would have existed. There is also the idea put across in Scripture that God is immutable and does not change in his nature. Malachi 3:6 states that the Lord does not change and Erickson views this as referring to God’s nature and attributes.
God and not his creation, is alone infinite in the sense described.
Human beings in contrast are finite. Humanity has a distinct Biblical religious historical beginning in Genesis 1-2, and a secular historical beginning which is not certain as far as date. From a Biblical perspective, even with promises of everlasting life for those in Christ a human being that lives forever with a resurrected body is still finite ontologically.
Any other living creatures that would exist in the new creation described in Revelation would also be finite.
BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
DAVIES, BRIAN (1999) ‘Infinity’, in Alan Richardson and John Bowden (eds.), A New Dictionary of Christian Theology, Kent, SCM Press Ltd.
ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.
THIESSEN, HENRY C. (1956) Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
Hohenaschau Castle, Germany (trekearth)
Royal Palace, Madrid (trekearth)
Glasgow (trekearth)
Philosopher Blackburn explains that the infinite is unlimited and that which is beyond anything that is fixed and bound. Blackburn (1996: 193). In contrast a ‘finite set’ (example used) is a set that stops at a point, somewhere. Blackburn (1996: 140). Brian Davies writes that the English word infinity comes from the Latin word ‘infinitas’, meaning boundless or endless. Davies (1999: 298). Davies states that some have ascribed the term infinity with various degrees of understanding of substance, time, space, the universe, numbers, and classes. Davies (1999: 298). He mentions that many philosophers have dealt with the issue of infinity through the centuries, but Biblically speaking there is not a doctrine of infinity. Davies (1999: 298). Biblically there is not a specific philosophical explanation of a doctrine of the infinite God. He explains that God's infinity is viewed as marking his perfection, and that God alone is understood as infinite. Davies (1999: 298). As one could count to the minus and to the plus to infinity, numbers could be considered infinite in a sense, but are not ontological living beings. As God is uncreated and uncreatable, he is alone is infinite ontologically. God would not be limited by time and space, and so in another sense created matter and space would be considered finite and not infinite within traditional Christian thought. God would be superior to all creatures and would be omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and eternal. Davies (1999: 298). Davies notes that process theology has postulated that God's personal nature means that he can change as he works within created time. Davies (1999: 228). Process theology reasons that God possibly develops in personality as he deals with his created beings. Davies (1999: 228).
It could be stated that if God's nature can be changed and develop within time, then he is not infinite, but rather the most advanced finite being in existence. A finite being that is beyond matter, space and time, perhaps. I reject process theology's notion of a finite God, for at least the following reasons.
It could be argued that if God is not infinite then he cannot posses any infinite attributes, and this would prohibit God from being eternal. To be eternal would mean that one has unlimited life. If God is not eternal, then how did God come to exist? If there was a God that created God and so on, there is the problem of vicious regress in which there are a hypothetical infinite regressions of Gods. If it is suggested at some point the regression ends, why cannot one simply reject the vicious regress and state that the Biblical God, or a God, is the only God? To state that God simply came to exist from nothing does not seem reasonable, and the suggestion answers nothing. If God is merely finite, then one has a problem of determining the first cause. A reasonable explanation is that God prior to time eternally was and eternally is today.
Many scientists and scholars reason that the universe is 15-20 billion years old, and believe in a 'Big Bang Theory'. Whether the universe is billions, millions, or thousands of years is not the primary concern of this article, but with a big bang model or like, the universe in agreement with the Bible, is not eternal. Billions, millions, or thousands of years is more time than any of human being, only living 100+ years maximum in the modern age can comprehend and may be considered perhaps from a human perspective, virtual eternity, but is not actual eternity, and therefore is not infinite. Since God created matter, time and space in Genesis, Chapter 1, it is clear that nothing within the material, physical realm existed prior to creation. This would leave God, and perhaps the angelic beings prior to the existence of matter, time (solar time at least) and space. It can be deduced that angels cannot be infinite in nature, because if they were limitless in nature they would themselves be God. It can be reasoned there are two or more limitless beings by definition as they simply would be an aspect of one infinite, eternal God of one substance. Thiessen notes angels are not eternal although the Bible does not state when they were created. Thiessen (1956: 191).
Thiessen thinks angels may have been formed at the Genesis 1 creation or just after. Thiessen (1956: 191). I would of course have no definite idea, but think that angels were created within some type of time, not solar time. I do not reason that angels existed in a timeless state with God. I would deduce that even non-physical finite spiritual beings must exist within time, although not necessarily within physical matter, time and space, in order to process thought patterns, as God alone is all-knowing and does not need to process thoughts within time. I would conclude this point by stating that God alone existed before the creation of matter, time and space and angelic beings. Again, God eternally simply was and is.
I suppose it possible and perhaps reasonable for God to instantaneously provide angelic beings with information in a timeless state, and at the same time I deduce information would also have to be available for demonic beings in the spiritual realm if time does not exist there, in order for them to function as the Bible has them. I am not meaning solar time, but time allotted for a finite spiritual being to process thoughts. For example, angels to process instructions from God and communicate and for demonic beings to communicate.
I reason a timeless state is more difficult philosophically as in likely being correct than a spiritual realm of some sort with time where angels and demons would work.
Millard J. Erickson discusses the Scriptural concept of God's existence in contrast to that of his creation. In Acts 17: 24-25 it states that God does not dwell physically, but is the creator of everything. Erickson notes that God is called the first and last in Isaiah 44: 6, and the Alpha and Omega in Revelation 1:8, 21:6, and 22:13. The idea being shown here is that God has always existed and will always exist. Erickson (1994: 273-274).
As pointed out previously, before the creation of matter and the angels nothing else would have existed. There is also the idea put across in Scripture that God is immutable and does not change in his nature. Malachi 3:6 states that the Lord does not change and Erickson views this as referring to God’s nature and attributes.
God and not his creation, is alone infinite in the sense described.
Human beings in contrast are finite. Humanity has a distinct Biblical religious historical beginning in Genesis 1-2, and a secular historical beginning which is not certain as far as date. From a Biblical perspective, even with promises of everlasting life for those in Christ a human being that lives forever with a resurrected body is still finite ontologically.
Any other living creatures that would exist in the new creation described in Revelation would also be finite.
BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
DAVIES, BRIAN (1999) ‘Infinity’, in Alan Richardson and John Bowden (eds.), A New Dictionary of Christian Theology, Kent, SCM Press Ltd.
ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.
THIESSEN, HENRY C. (1956) Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
Hohenaschau Castle, Germany (trekearth)
Royal Palace, Madrid (trekearth)
Glasgow (trekearth)
