Saturday, August 25, 2007

Some thoughts on infant baptism


Kenora, Ontario (photo from trekearth.com)

A few weeks ago after church outside in the park, a friendly debate took place concerning the merits of infant baptism, also known as paedobaptism. I have never been convinced that it is the standard Biblical practice of baptism, and was taught at Columbia Bible College (Mennonite), and Canadian Baptist Seminary at Trinity Western University that believer’s baptism was the standard Biblical practice. This is complex subject, and one that I admit I am not a scholar, although in this article I will provide some information in an academic and scholarly manner. This will not be an overly long, exhaustive article, as those types of articles do not work well in a blog context! Having become a member of the Presbyterian Church in America (North America) I do admit that infant baptism does have theological strengths even if I suppose that believer’s baptism has a stronger case. Frankly, I reason that this is an important issue, but, and I say this humbly, I think that there are far more important issues for Christians to be debating, such as free will and sovereignty theodicy!

On a personal note, I was baptized/christened as an infant in the United Church of Canada, and as an adult in the Mennonite Brethren Church with full immersion. I view the United Church as very liberal and my initial experience as questionable. Comments for this article, as always, are appreciated.

G.W. Bromiley, who as of 1996 was Senior Professor of Church History and Historical Theology at Fuller Theological Seminary, explains that in early church history those such as Irenaeus and Origen, who were close to the apostles, were involved in baptizing children of professing believers. Bromiley (1996: 116). Infant Baptism was performed somewhat on Scriptural grounds, although there is no direct Biblical command to baptize infants. Bromiley (1996: 116). Bromiley reasons that although in Acts there were household baptisms, there are no clear-cut instances of child baptism. Bromiley (1996: 116). Bromiley thinks Biblically and theologically that there is evidence that infant baptism should be the normal practice in families where the gospel has taken hold, although there is no guarantee that children shall be believers. Bromiley (1996: 116).

Bromiley writes that many view believer’s baptism as the only legitimate New Testament form of baptism, although not necessarily immersion. Bromiley (1996: 114). He explains that many tie in Christ’s call to baptize with the idea of making disciples, and nothing was said about infants. Bromiley (1996: 114). The question arises if infants are disciples, and I would think not, although they certainly can be disciples in waiting. Bromiley notes that from Paul’s writings that tie belief and repentance with baptism it does not make sense to baptize infants that cannot hear the gospel or make a response of belief. Christ’s love for children is evident, but there is no direct Biblical command to include them in the baptism process, and there is no Biblical warrant to suppose that baptism should definitely precede belief and repentance. Bromiley (1996: 115). Bromiley admits that the households in Acts may have included infants, but even if there were, there is no indication that they were baptized and states that it would be hazardous inference to use these verses to support infant baptism. Bromiley (1996: 115). Bromiley writes that the need for faith is correctly found in infant baptism, but that the personal confession found in Believer’s baptism is stronger. Bromiley (1996: 115).

Reading Bromiley, it seems he reasons that it is good for infants within a Christian family to receive baptism, but that it would be even better for them to have believer’s baptism at a later date.

To conclude, here are some thoughts on Colossians 2:11-12 which is a section of the New Testament often used to support infant baptism.

Roman Catholic support of the idea from Robert H. Brom.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

In Place of Circumcision

Furthermore, Paul notes that baptism has replaced circumcision (Col. 2:11–12). In that passage, he refers to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ" and "the circumcision made without hands." Of course, usually only infants were circumcised under the Old Law; circumcision of adults was rare, since there were few converts to Judaism. If Paul meant to exclude infants, he would not have chosen circumcision as a parallel for baptism.

This comparison between who could receive baptism and circumcision is an appropriate one. In the Old Testament, if a man wanted to become a Jew, he had to believe in the God of Israel and be circumcised. In the New Testament, if one wants to become a Christian, one must believe in God and Jesus and be baptized. In the Old Testament, those born into Jewish households could be circumcised in anticipation of the Jewish faith in which they would be raised. Thus in the New Testament, those born in Christian households can be baptized in anticipation of the Christian faith in which they will be raised. The pattern is the same: If one is an adult, one must have faith before receiving the rite of membership; if one is a child too young to have faith, one may be given the rite of membership in the knowledge that one will be raised in the faith. This is the basis of Paul’s reference to baptism as "the circumcision of Christ"—that is, the Christian equivalent of circumcision.


Support for the concept from R. Scott Clark of Westminster Theological Seminary

http://public.csusm.edu/guests/rsclark/Infant_Baptism.html

What is the Connection Between Circumcision and Baptism?
The connection between baptism and circumcision is quite clear in Colossians 2:11-12. The connection is not direct, but indirect and the point of contact between them is Christ and baptism is the sign and seal of that circumcision. In v.11 Paul says "in him [i.e. in Christ] you were also circumcised with the circumcision done by Christ" and in v.12 he says exactly how it is that we were circumcised in and by Christ: "having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith...." For Paul, in the New covenant, our union with Christ is our circumcision. In baptism, we are identified with Christ's baptism/circumcision, as it were, on the cross. Neither baptism nor circumcision effects this union (ex opere operato), rather God the Spirit unites us to Christ, makes us alive and gives us faith.

The point not to be missed is that, in Paul's mind, baptism and circumcision are both signs and seals of Christ's baptism/circumcision on the cross for us. By faith, we are united to Christ's circumcision and by union with Christ we become participants in his circumcision/baptism. Because circumcision pointed forward to Christ's death and baptism looks back to Christ's death, they are closely linked in Paul's mind and almost interchangeable. Paul's point here is to teach us about our union with Christ, but along the way we see how he thinks about baptism and circumcision and his thinking should inform ours.

One of the reasons that Paul so strongly opposed the imposition of circumcision upon Christians by the Judaizers is that, by faith, we have already been circumcised in Christ, of which baptism is the sign and seal. We were already identified as belonging to God and we have undergone the curse in Christ. So actual physical circumcision is, in the new covenant, unnecessary. Paul tells those who wish to circumcise themselves, to go the whole way and emasculate themselves.

Acts 2.38,39 equates circumcision and baptism. In Acts 2.38 the Apostle Peter calls for repentance, faith in Christ and baptism by Jews who are hearing his preaching. In v.39 he gives the reason for this action: "the promise is to you and to your children, and all who are far off...." The Apostle Peter consciously uses the same formula in his preaching as the LORD himself used when he instituted the sign of circumcision in Genesis 17, which the Jews listening understood precisely.

Richard C. Barcellos explains the view that spiritual circumcision and not baptism, replaces physical circumcision.

http://www.reformedreader.org/RBTRII.1.Col.2.Barcellos.RPM.doc

Baptism does not replace circumcision as the sign and seal of the covenant. We have seen clearly that spiritual circumcision, not baptism, replaces physical circumcision. Baptism in Col. 2:12 (i.e., vital union with Christ) is a result of spiritual circumcision. Burial and resurrection with Christ is not equivalent to but causally subsequent to spiritual circumcision. Physical circumcision has been replaced by spiritual circumcision under the New Covenant. The correspondence between the two, however, is not one-to-one. Paul tells us this by saying that New Covenant circumcision is “a circumcision made without hands.” Though physical circumcision and spiritual circumcision are related they are not equivalent. One is physical and does not affect the heart; the other is spiritual and does not affect the body. Both are indications of covenant membership. But only the circumcision of the heart guarantees one’s eternal destiny, for all the regenerate express faith and “are protected by the power of God through faith” (1 Pet. 1:5).

We must take issue with those who argue from this text that baptism replaces circumcision. The Lutheran scholar Eduard Lohse asserts, “Baptism is called circumcision here… The circumcision of Christ which every member of the community has experienced is nothing other than being baptized into the death and resurrection of Christ.” We have seen, however, that the only replacement motif in this text is between physical circumcision and spiritual circumcision. Spiritual circumcision is not equivalent to baptism. Baptism (i.e. union with Christ) is the sphere in which burial and resurrection with Christ occurs, which is effected through faith, and a result of spiritual circumcision.

The Reformed commentator William Hendriksen says:

Evidently Paul in this entire paragraph magnifies Christian baptism as much as he, by clear implication, disapproves of the continuation of the rite of circumcision if viewed as having anything to do with salvation. The definite implication, therefore, is that baptism has taken the place of circumcision. Hence, what is said with reference to circumcision in Rom. 4:11, as being a sign and a seal, holds also for baptism. In the Colossian context baptism is specifically a sign and seal of having been buried with Christ and of having been raised with him [emphasis Hendriksen’s].

We take issue with Hendriksen’s view on several fronts. First, Paul is not magnifying Christian baptism in this text. He is magnifying Christian circumcision. This is evident by the fact that “you were also circumcised” is the regulating verb to which the rest of vv. 11 and 12 are subordinate. Second, there is not a “definite implication …that baptism has taken the place of circumcision.” Our exegesis has shown us this clearly. Third, it is not true that “what is said with reference to circumcision in Rom. 4:11, as being a sign and a seal, holds also for baptism.” This is so because Paul is not arguing for a replacement theology between physical circumcision and water baptism and because the seal of the New Covenant is the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13; 4:30). Fourth, Paul says nothing in Col. 2:11-12 about baptism being “a sign and seal of having been buried with Christ and of having been raised with him.” He does say that the subsequent, spiritual concomitant of spiritual circumcision is spiritual burial and resurrection with Christ in baptism effected through faith. There is no hint of baptism being a sign and seal as argued by Hendriksen. It is of interest to note one of Hendriksen’s footnotes to these statements. Notice the concession he makes.

I am speaking here about a clear implication. The surface contrast is that between literal circumcision and circumcision without hands, namely, the circumcision of the heart, as explained. But the implication also is clear. Hence, the following statement is correct: “Since, then, baptism has come in the place of circumcision (Col. 2:11-13), the children should be baptized as heirs of the kingdom of God and of his covenant” (Form for the Baptism of Infants in Psalter Hymnal of the Christian Reformed Church, Grand Rapids, Mich., 1959, p. 86). When God made his covenant with Abraham the children were included (Gen. 17:1-14). This covenant, in its spiritual aspects, was continued in the present dispensation (Acts 2:38, 29; Rom. 4:9-12; Gal. 3:7, 8, 29). Therefore the children are still included and should still receive the sign, which in the present dispensation, as Paul makes clear in Col. 2:11, 12, is baptism [emphases Hendriksen’s].

Hendriksen’s concession that “The surface contrast is that between literal circumcision and circumcision without hands” surely sheds doubt over his initial claim of “speaking here about a clear implication.” Again, we have seen that Paul is not arguing that water baptism replaces physical circumcision as a sign and seal of the covenant. It does not follow, then, that “the children should be baptized as heirs of the kingdom of God and of his covenant.” Paul does not say or imply that the sign of the covenant is baptism. Instead, the sign of the covenant is regeneration. All who are spiritually circumcised are immediately buried and raised with Christ in baptism, effected through faith. Colossians 2:11-12 is about the application of redemption to elect souls and does not imply infant baptism, some of which are not elect. If it implies anything about water baptism, it implies that it ought to be administered to those who have been circumcised of heart and vitally united to Christ through faith as a symbol of these spiritual blessings.

All who are circumcised of heart are buried and raised with Christ through faith immediately subsequent to their heart circumcision. Regeneration cannot be abstracted from its immediate fruits. All regenerate souls are immediately untied to Christ through faith. This is what Col. 2:11-12 clearly teaches. Our exegesis argues for an ordo salutus as follows: regeneration, then union with Christ through faith. And this experience is that of all the regenerate and has nothing to do with the act of water baptism in itself.

This text neither teaches baptismal regeneration nor implies infant baptism. In context, it is displaying the completeness believers have in Christ. It does not apply to unbelievers or to all who are baptized by any mode and by properly recognized ecclesiastical administrators. It has to do with the spiritual realities that come to souls who are Christ’s sheep. It has to do with the application of redemption to elect sinners. It has to do with regeneration, faith, and experiential union with Christ. These are the aspects of completeness in Christ Paul highlights here. We should gain much encouragement from these things. They were revealed to fortify believers against error. They were written to strengthen saints already in Christ. They were not revealed as proof for the subjects of baptism. They were not revealed to teach us that water baptism replaces physical circumcision as the sign and seal of the covenant. God gave us Col. 2:11-12 to display this fact: When you have Jesus, you have all you need!

BARCELLOS, RICHARD C. (2007) An Exegetical Appraisal of Colossians 2:11-12, Escondido, California, The Reformed Reader.
http://www.reformedreader.org/RBTRII.1.Col.2.Barcellos.RPM.doc

BROM, ROBERT H. (2005) Infant Baptism, El Cajon, California, Catholic Answers.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

BROMILEY, G.W. (1996) ‘Baptism, Infant', in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

CLARK, R. SCOTT (2005) A Contemporary Reformed Defense of Infant Baptism, Escondido, California, Westminster Theological Seminary.
http://public.csusm.edu/guests/rsclark/Infant_Baptism.html


25 comments:

  1. Hi,

    The baptism essay is updated a little at:

    http://www.wscal.edu/clark/baptism.php

    There's more on baptism here:
    http://www.wscal.edu/bookstore/store/details.php?id=1341

    and here:
    http://www.cpjournal.com/articles/r-scott-clark-baptism-and-the-benefits-of-christ/

    Best,

    rsc

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  2. Your detailed comments on baptism/infant baptism (christening)/believer's baptism are well presented in your article. Infant baptism with water is a promise made by the partent/parents, witnessed by the Church congregation, that they will endeavour to raise that child in a manner that will cause him/her to believe in and know the holy Father God, Jesus Christ the son, and the Holy Spirit (our triune God). Unfortunately it so often happens that this promise on the part of the parents is not taken seriously enough and the child, in growing older and with God's divine spiritual leadership, must determine his/her relationship with his/her creator. Chistening is a symbolic ritual on the part of the parents. Believer's baptism, however, is a personal relationship in faith made by the child at a point when he/she understands and believes in the creator and takes this personal relationship seriously into heart. Certainly, in so far as the individual is concerned, the believer's baptism is far more important than the infant baptism (christening). However, the infant baptism could be an important first step by the parents in the rearing of that child in a good Christian home. Prayerfully, this ritual will, with God's divine leadership, become more important to the parents in the raising of the child.
    One point that could possibly be better explained at some point would be the terms "circumcision" and/or "circumcision with water" as these are terms more difficult to clearly understand. I will be interested in learning more.

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  3. Hey Russ,

    Growing up in a Church of Christ, I was taught that your salvation was guaranteed only after the full immersion of a believer's baptism. Many still believe that accepting Christ in your heart doesn't really count until you get dunked in the nearest body of water - a point of view that I do not completely share.

    Today, we do a lot of "baby dedications" which is very similar to Anon's comments above on christening - this is when the parents thank God for thier new blessing and dedicate themselves to raising the child to know and love God and Christ.

    My only problem with infant baptism deals with whether the individual will eventually make a conscious decision to accept Christ and be immersed. One of my close high school friends once told me that she didn't need to go to church because she had already been baptized as an infant. I kept asking if she had accepted Christ in her heart and she only responded by saying that she believed that there was a God. So, in her mind, if there was then she was "covered".

    I rejoice in knowing that she has now accepted Christ in her heart.

    The problem Churches of Christ have with baptism is that as soon as you say the "b-word" you get dunked. There should be discussions about baptism and what it means and how it totally changes your relationship with Christ (as in receiving the Holy Spirit).

    Although I certainly do not regret my own baptism (age 13), I do regret that not one person sat down and spoke with me about the incredible decision I was making. Although I eventually grew into a wonderful relationship with Christ, I essentially got baptized because that's what all my friends were doing! Apparently that was a good enough reason for those at my church!

    I believe that God is after much more than ceremony and tradition - he is after the heart. And because of that it is hard for me to see the merits of infant baptism.

    Sorry if I rambled . . .

    W

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  4. Thanks very much for the three responses.

    Dr. Clark,

    I appreciate very much you taking the time to post your updates. I wanted to post a scholar from Westminster.

    Anonymous, your comments are reasonable and valuable.

    From:

    GRENZ, STANLEY J. DAVID GURETZKI and CHERITH FEE NORDLING (1999) Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms, Downers Grove, Ill., InterVarsity Press.

    Circumcision is the practice of cutting off foreskin of the male sex organ. It was instituted in the Old Testament community of faith under the Mosaic Law. It was done on the eighth day after birth. p.26. Circumcision was also performed on Gentile converts to Judaism. p.26.

    According to the New Testament, physical circumcision has been superceded by the spiritual 'circumcision of the heart'. p.26.
    Some scholars connect spiritual circumcision with water baptism as was mentioned within the Barcellos article and in other articles I scanned.

    Hi Wade.

    Growing up in a Church of Christ, I was taught that your salvation was guaranteed only after the full immersion of a believer's baptism.

    I am glad that you have abandoned this doctrine. It is important to have some type of objective, critical evaluation of the views of one's own denomination. I respect you for that, Wade.

    You point out that a conscious understanding of baptism is superior and I agree, although I do think that infant baptism has some merit. Concerning immersion there appears to be debate on whether or not this was always the New Testament standard, as Bromiley noted.

    Thanks again!

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  5. Interesting article. I agree with you, by the way. An interesting follow up to this would be something about age of accountability.

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  6. Cheers, David.

    My personal deduction is that when persons with normal mental abilities reach adulthood they are candidates for God’s judgment. This age of accountability could occur at an earlier age, but I reason that persons are generally still rather childlike in the early teens.

    I hope San Diego works out well for you, David.

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  7. Very interesting and balanced post, thanks.

    I grew up without being baptised (my parents wanted me to decide myself when I grow up) - I remember how this scared my granddad. He imagined if I died, I'd be in hell.

    He was very happy when I decided to have myself baptised with 14 years.

    Friends of mine had to find out about their believings on that issue, when they had their first son and realised, that they had different opinions on the issue.

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  8. Thanks for the insightful comments, Helen.

    I remember how this scared my granddad. He imagined if I died, I'd be in hell. This is unfortunate and perhaps due to a belief in baptismal regeneration, and/or the belief that children outside of the New Testament covenant are hell bound. I reject both concepts, but realize that speculation concerning deceased children is tricky business.

    I am glad that you were baptized, and I am pleased that I was as well when I was 22 years old.

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  9. I do not believe baptism saves us, I believe we should do it but it does not save us if we do not get baptised. Even babys are not saved or denyed salvation if they are not, the Bible does not teach that. Here is what the Bible does teach.

    1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:

    John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

    Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost

    1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



    Those verses from the Word of God show, Baptism does not remove our Sin, only the Blood of Jesus Christ can take away our sin.


    John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

    John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

    John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

    John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

    John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

    John 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

    John 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

    John 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

    John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

    John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

    John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.


    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

    Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

    1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.





    If this is true, then why do we not read any accounts of Jesus or the Apostles ever once saying, In order to be saved, you must be baptized. Then in the Bible I read accounts of Jesus not baptizing, and the apostle Paul claiming Jesus did not send him to baptize.

    John 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

    John 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,).

    1Cr 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;

    1Cr 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.

    1Cr 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

    1Cr 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

    1Cr 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    Act 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

    Act 16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

    Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

    Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Rick b

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  10. Thanks for the verses, Rick.

    I would reject concepts of baptismal regeneration, whether through infant or believer's baptism.

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  11. Wade said The problem Churches of Christ have with baptism is that as soon as you say the "b-word" you get dunked. There should be discussions about baptism and what it means and how it totally changes your relationship with Christ (as in receiving the Holy Spirit).

    Although I certainly do not regret my own baptism (age 13), I do regret that not one person sat down and spoke with me about the incredible decision I was making. Although I eventually grew into a wonderful relationship with Christ, I essentially got baptized because that's what all my friends were doing! Apparently that was a good enough reason for those at my church!


    I think this is a good idea, but yet if it does not happen in any or all church's I dont think it is a big deal either, the reason why is, we find in Scripture, on place where 3,000 people were baptised and added to the Church, did someone sit down with all 3,000 before baptism and speak to them about it?

    Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added [unto them] about three thousand souls.

    Then we read in these verses Act 8:36 And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
    Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
    Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
    Act 8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.


    The eunuch was baptised and then Phillip was taken away, no mention of sitting Down and sharing with him first. Again I am not against doing that, it's just I dont feel it is the end of the world if we dont do it. Rick b

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  12. Cheers, Rick.

    The explanation of the necessity of baptism, obviously would not work in an infant baptism context for the infant, although the practice can be discussed with the parents, family, and friends. In a believer's baptism context, as with all major Christian practices, such as communion, weddings, and funerals, I think that an explanation is helpful. I am not certain, of course, of how much instruction was given in the passages you mentioned Rick, since the Bible does not discuss all the details of every story.

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  13. Hey Rick,

    Let me add a little clarification to my comments as I respond to yours.

    First, I think we are pretty close to being on the same page on this topic.

    What I regret about my baptism was that my family and congregation were so focused on whether or not I had been "dunked" that they didn't even slow down long to enough ask why I wanted to be baptized. I admit that the reason had more to do with peer pressure, perhaps positive in this case, than it did with wanting to accept Christ as my savior.

    Regardless of motive, my baptism was a first step towards a very meaningful relationship with Christ - so I guess I shouldn't regret any aspect of it.

    But my perspective, one being as a member of the Church of Christ, is that there was an opportunity to ask, "Why do you want to accept Christ and be baptized?" but no one bothered to ask because they felt it was more important that I get dunked than answer that question from the heart.

    At least the eunuch had Phillip to ask whether or not he understood what he was reading. Much like the eunuch, if someone asked me the same question I would have answered no. And if they had taken only a moment to explain, I probably would have been able to go forward with a more appropriate appreciation for what I was doing.

    I'm not saying that discussions are necessary in order to take on Christ. But I do wish I had known what I was doing at the moment of my immersion.

    W

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  14. Hi Russ! I enjoyed reading the articles and comments. I wrestled through this debate when young. I would gladly have been rebaptised when a teenager but, after a lot of reading, thought, and prayer, could not in good conscience be rebaptised when in my 30s when I married a man in the anabaptist tradition and, therefore, could not become a member of his church.

    Billy Graham's late wife, Ruth, by the way, took the same stand and so she and Billy attended a Presbyterian Church throughout their marriage, although he had strong beliefs regarding believers' baptism. Half of their family have followed each tradition.

    I think it is so important for anabaptists to realize that we DO have a Scriptural basis for our beliefs and therefore they should not be judgmental and presume that, those who do not get baptised AGAIN on confession of faith, are living in rebellion to God's command. John Newton, who wrote "Amazing Grace" was an Anglican and a Baptist man gave him a bad time on this issue. With a sense of humour he replied that he could preach on a text that the other man could not. This was where Paul stated, "I came not to baptise but to preach the Gospel." Even Menno Simons stated something to the effect that if just the children of BELIEVERS were baptised it would not be so serious. Certainly "christening" of babies where the parents do not have a real life changing faith is meaningless and I can see why our pastors are willing to rebaptise such.

    I think it is so important to not judge if we do not want to be judged. MANY hear only one view and are totally ignorant that we also base our stand in this issue on Scripture. I esteem the privilege that I received by being brought up in a God fearing home and having ancestors who came to believe and trust in Jeus. Facts are that this is the number one factor in people becoming believers. I think it is interesting that we see in the Mennonite community, the example of a long lineage of people receiving the faith from their ancestors and passing it on to their children.

    I read that in the Old Testament we have circumcision and passover. Many believe that, just as baptism replaces circumcision, so Communion replaces the Passover. In the old testament both of these signs involved the shedding of blood but, now in the N.T., we have bloodless signs because Jesus has already been sacrificed for us. Another said that, in the O.T., would children have more privileges than those in the N.T.? I know it was only the boys (obviously) that were given the sign but this, too, is significant as Jesus has brought girls to a new level of dignity.

    Just as circumcision did not and does not save, so infant baptism does not, either. Of course we need to come individually to faith in Christ. Baby dedication is now taking the place in anabaptist churches. It is all a matter of when the water is applied. God knew the end from the beginning. He knew this debate would exist. How easy it would have been for Him, if He had the same emphasis as Baptists, to include one verse in the Bible that would state that only on confession of faith, should one be baptised. There are a lot of HURTING moms out there in anabaptist churches who are beautiful Christians and are not allowed to be accepted into the fellowship as members. I know at least one of them. Believe me, I have written letters to pastors explaining my position. I did not want them to change their stand because of me but simply to UNDERSTAND. Dr. Packer says, that in the Christian church, we build circles and those inside are not even aware of them but those on the outside most accutely are.

    That's all for now! Anne Wiens

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  15. Hi Russ! I enjoyed reading the articles and comments. I wrestled through this debate when young. I would gladly have been rebaptised when a teenager but, after a lot of reading, thought, and prayer, could not in good conscience be rebaptised when in my 30s when I married a man in the anabaptist tradition and, therefore, could not become a member of his church.

    Thanks very much, Anne. It is excellent to see your comments, and I am always looking for new readers and comments. Although I hold to believer's baptism, I personally would have not have been as eager to receive it if I had grown up in a Biblical PCA church instead of a the United Church, which is very liberal.

    Billy Graham's late wife, Ruth, by the way, took the same stand and so she and Billy attended a Presbyterian Church throughout their marriage, although he had strong beliefs regarding believers' baptism. Half of their family have followed each tradition.

    Yes, there is no doubt that both views fall within a Christian tradition.

    I think it is so important for anabaptists to realize that we DO have a Scriptural basis for our beliefs and therefore they should not be judgmental and presume that, those who do not get baptised AGAIN on confession of faith, are living in rebellion to God's command.

    I agree, is it not rebellion but a different interpretation. I personally do not see Colossians 2: 11-13 as providing support for infant baptism, either from a plain English reading or looking at Greek interpretations, but some fine Christians do. I like the interpretation presented in the article concerning a spiritual circumcision, but I am open-minded enough to present different perspectives.:) Altogether, I generally favour Reformed theology over Mennonite, and to me there are more important theological issues to ponder than baptism, but still this is an interesting discussion.

    I think it is so important to not judge if we do not want to be judged. MANY hear only one view and are totally ignorant that we also base our stand in this issue on Scripture. I esteem the privilege that I received by being brought up in a God fearing home and having ancestors who came to believe and trust in Jeus. Facts are that this is the number one factor in people becoming believers. I think it is interesting that we see in the Mennonite community, the example of a long lineage of people receiving the faith from their ancestors and passing it on to their children.

    Good point.

    I know it was only the boys (obviously) that were given the sign but this, too, is significant as Jesus has brought girls to a new level of dignity.

    Thanks, Anne. Your point that circumcision was for boys only is important. I wrote this concerning children in a previous article.

    For deceased children and those who are mentally deficient, it can be deduced that since they do not arrive at a reasonably certain point of consciously rejecting God, and reasonable understanding of the punishment for this rebellion, they may be regenerated by God and included within the culminated Kingdom of God after death. I would view this as reasonable speculation. Biblically persons appear to be judged for sins, which result from a sinful nature, and not for the sinful nature itself. In Revelation 20, those persons who are thrown into the lake of fire are judged for their deeds, and therefore persons are judged for deeds and not nature. A non-regenerated child or mentally deficient person would still have a corrupt nature unacceptable for God’s presence, but I speculate that a certain mental capacity is required to be everlastingly punished for sinful deeds.

    It contrast it could be stated that children and the mentally deficient outside of Christ, could be everlastingly separated from God and judged only according to what they know. I view this as a theological possibility that cannot be overlooked. But, the concept of everlasting separation in the New Testament appears to be one of God separating those from his presence that embraced their sinful nature and committed sinful deeds with a definite and not largely deficient understanding.

    Just as circumcision did not and does not save, so infant baptism does not, either. Of course we need to come individually to faith in Christ.

    Agreed.

    Baby dedication is now taking the place in anabaptist churches.

    I have heard that this is taking place in Baptist churches as well, Anne.

    That's all for now! Anne Wiens

    Thanks much, Anne!

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  16. Hello Anne, You said

    I think it is so important to not judge if we do not want to be judged.


    On this point you mis understand the Scripture, If you read the Bible a little better you will see that Jesus did tell us, when WE DO JUDGE, We need to Judge in a correct Manner.

    Then in our lives we do make judgments, The Bible speaks about False Prophets and wolves in sheeps clothing. We must make Judgments to tell if they are false teachers or not.

    Paul and the other apostles also made Judgments, So yes we do judge and make judgments. Rick b

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  17. Thanks, Rick.

    I think you both raise good points. Anne, I deduce was thinking in the context of Matthew 7 where Jesus warned that we should not judge unless we want to be judged. Jesus was stating not to judge as a hypocrite. Rick, I agree that we are to judge in the correct manner and that can also be taken from Matthew 7.

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  18. Russ, I only said what I said to her because she was not spefic as to what she meant, and since she was not clear, we both know many non-believers who love to misquote the Do not judge verse, not knowing Jesus went on to both Judge and tell us to judge also. Rick b

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  19. Thanks for the clarification, Rick. You make a good point.:)

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  20. Baptism

    A Baptist And A Presbyterian Agree On These Things About Baptism?
    In the summer of 2001 Mark Dever (SBC) and David Coffin (PCA) held a public conversation at Capitol Hill Baptist Church on baptism. They came up with the following 17 statements that both on them agreed on:

    No one disagrees with professor baptism (except Quakers).
    This is a subject of great import.
    There are clear commands for and examples of professors’ baptism in the New Testament. This fact is not evidentially determinate of the question (i.e., it does not preclude infant baptism).
    God’s Word alone should settle the matter (but we do not mind using history as confirmation of a biblical pattern). There are no command for or clear examples of infant baptism in the New Testament.DC: Uncertain about the word “examples.” What do you make of household baptism (Philippian jailer, Lydia, etc.)? These examples are problems only for baptistic Christians. MD: There is not reason the first reader of the text should not refer to baptism of believers. For example, the word was preached to the Philippian jailer’s whole household. Baptism was appointed by Christ to be of permanent value in the Christian church. Baptism is a rite of initiation; the Lord’s Supper is a rite of continuance. There is no articulation of a Reformed understanding of infant baptism before Zwingli. DC: Someone in 250 AD would not have thought baptism to be salvific. MD: Didache suggests that believer’s baptism was assumed in the early church.
    Infant baptism is widely practiced by the late second century AD.
    MD: By this point of time, church fathers assumed baptismal regeneration. DC: Their words only mimic biblical language.
    MD: Guidelines for believer’s baptism exist in second century AD.
    DC: This is perfectly understandable in a missionary enterprise. There are some who are baptized who are not in fact saved. There are some who are not baptized who are in fact saved.
    There is a regular temptation of the visible church to trust in the outward rather than the inward.
    God can create faith in a child before that faith is evident.
    The texts urging “believe and be baptized” or referring to “household” baptisms do not of themselves constitute conclusive evidence for either side.
    The covenant made with Abraham is an administration of the covenant of grace. Nothing in this particular administration violates the general covenant.
    Children of believers enjoy particular privileges and have special obligations. MD: Do not treat your children as if you presume they are elect. DC: Tell them that they are disciples in the school of Christ. By virtue of Christ’s command to the contrary, they will in some way be lacking if they have not been baptized.

    This article originally posted at Reformation 21 on August 18, 2007.

    September 22nd, 2007 - Posted by Will | 2007 Archive, Children & Youths, Ecclesiology, Family Matters, Southern Baptist Affairs, Theology | | No Comments

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  21. I realize this is an extremely late addition to this now quiet debate . . . however, here's an interesting post on this subject by a favorite preacher of mine (actually, he's quoting an author - but you know what I mean!).

    Interested in your thoughts . . .

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  22. Ben Witherington...I quoted him with the Jesus Family article that I wrote and you commented on, remember, Wade?

    In light of the discussion with a pastor which continued last Sunday, I have the following thoughts. Even if due to the baptism of households in the New Testament, infant baptism is implied as Biblical, as it was practiced by some church Fathers (Irenaeus and Origen ), the formula from Matthew 28:19-20 is discipleship and baptism. It is possible infant baptism is correct and that households in Acts 16:15, 33 for example, included infants, but this would be concluded by deduction and not by clear Biblical teaching. Another pastor from church and infant baptism supporter, granted me this on Sunday. In the New Testament disciples seemingly were persons that could make a conscious public commitment of faith and this would not include infants. The first pastor thinks that the case for infant baptism is stronger than the case for believer's baptism, I doubt my senior pastor would agree with that statement. Even if infant baptism is implied in the Bible, it has not been presented clearly in a verse or in the New Testament. I cannot 100% rule out the possibility that infants were baptized into the New Covenant but it certainly is not explicit for seemingly what would be such an important doctrine, Wade. There is the danger of eisegesis, which is reading theology into texts.

    Thanks!

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  23. Ben Witherington said "God can do it how God wants to do it when it comes to salvation. We are playing catch-up ball. And this memo just in: We humans cannot control the liberating grace of God through the sacraments. We are not in charge of such things. We need to stop thinking we are.”

    To me, this quote says that whether or not infant baptism was practiced by the early Christians it's not up to me to say that it was right or wrong.

    Don't forget that growing up Church of Christ, I was exposed to the belief that you can only go to Heaven if you are baptized by water as an adult (preferably as a pre-teen adult) by the Church of Christ.

    Although this idea is not generally accepted by my current congregation, there are still many who believe somewhere in the Bible the words "baptized by water as an adult by the Church of Christ" can be found.

    Umph!

    What I find liberating about Bill's point above is that it allows me to check out of this way of thinking and focus on more productive subjects. It reminds me that I'm the very last to argue that one way, particularly my way, is the only way of doing something because there's a good chance that I'm doing it the wrong way as well!

    If someone wants to baptize their infant then may God bless that occasion! If someone feels they received the Holy Spirit long before they were immersed then more power to them! I'm not going worry my crazy, messed up head about it anymore!

    . . . Oh, and I did forget that you mentioned Bill in Jesus Family!

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  24. What I find liberating about Bill's point above is that it allows me to check out of this way of thinking and focus on more productive subjects.

    Good point, Wade. As I have stated to my pastors at church, I am willing to hold to infant baptism if the evidence allows. I do not primarily hold an emotional attachment to believer's baptism, but rather support it from what I have been taught and have reasoned out on my own. But, views can change over time or can remain the same and be strengthened.

    Cheers, Wade.

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