Reply to tikno II
I have recently discovered very interesting 'block' like, modern house architecture from Argentina. I suppose this works well in regions where there is much yearly sunlight, unlike here.
Preface
My first reply to tikno
tikno replied in the comments
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, all complexity of the above definitions, philosophical ism, theological teaching, and academically / empirical study about the Divine above is just complicate my limited intellect.
I felt the presence of the Almighty (God) when the first time I went to obstetrician with my wife.
I looked inside my wife's womb through the ultrasound monitor. There is miracle in the womb. There is life. Humans only able to create robots. I felt His presence through my consciousness, not by academical understanding / learning nor by the scriptures.
Jesus came to this world in simplicity. The Divine simplicity is goodness. All the scriptures has been simplified into the Law of Affection. That's my simplicity.
God bless you.
Reply to tikno II
The latest kind reply from tikno from my previous entry comments section:
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There is daylight, there is night. Likewise, there is always goodness and evil in the human imagination. The two of them mingled in human desires. Fortunately, human race is different from animal. Human was blessed with a mind (intellect) with the hope to overcome wild desires. The decision (as a cause) is in the human hands. Its implementation (deeds) depends on their desires and decision. This mortal world is a testing ground for humans.
Perhaps this link have an answer for this complexity:
End of words, I'm just write my viewpoint and not intended for counterbalance.
Sample Cited
I asked Lord Krishna to help me LOVE others, like He loves me.
Krishna said: Ohhh..., finally... you got the idea!
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Although a biblical worldview does not view Krishna as Lord, we can agree that we are to love others.
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Jesus Christ within the great commandment (Mathew 22, Mark 12, Luke 10), mentions that the second commandment is to love all persons as neighbours as one loves self. The first commandment to love of God with the fullness in mind and spirit. This is the God of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. Some 'gospel' light can be shed even to the unregenerate outside of the Kingdom of God. Perhaps some that become regenerated, by the moulding of the Holy Spirit (John 3, Titus 3) will be impacted by both the love and truth within the Christian Church shown to them.
End of citation
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I am not a scholar on Hinduism, but I have studied World Religions within my BA/MTS degrees. I realize Hinduism has multifaceted views within. Buddhism as well has multifaceted views. However, philosophically, in general, if the human nature was indeed an aspect of the divine, we would all in humanity, be infinite, as opposed to finite. Moksha, as in seeking enlightenment and freedom from rebirths, would not be necessary; as in being part of what is infinite and divine, human beings would have no ontological needs. There would be no need to seek enlightenment and freedom as this would already be part of infinite, divine nature.
A development of moksha theory, is actually an unintended, backhanded admittance of the finite nature of humanity.
For other readers, I replied to tikno's views in the link above.
Further...
I have noted that logically and reasonably, 'cause' is not simply human cause as that is a finite cause. A primary and first cause, which is infinite is required. Indeed, human beings with nature, consciousness, desires and will, are judged for their deeds (Revelation 20), but in Jesus Christ, finite sinfulness of humanity is covered by the applied atoning and resurrection work of Jesus Christ (see Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Hebrews, as examples).
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AMERIKS, KARL (1999) ‘Kant, Immanuel’, in Robert Audi (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
BONJOUR, LAURENCE. (1996) ‘A Priori’, in Robert Audi (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
EDWARDS, PAUL AND ARTHUR PAP (1973) (eds), ‘A priori knowledge: Introduction’, A Modern Introduction To Philosophy, New York, The Free Press.
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HUME, DAVID (1739-1740)(1973) ‘A Treatise of Human Nature’, in Paul Edwards and Arthur Pap (eds.), A Modern Introduction To Philosophy, New York, The Free Press.
HUME, DAVID (1779)(2004) Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, Digireads.com/Neeland Media LLC, Lawrence, Kansas.
KANT, IMMANUEL (1781)(1787)(1998) Critique of Pure Reason, Translated and edited by Paul Guyer and Allen W. Wood, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge.
KANT, IMMANUEL (1781)(1787)(1929)(2006) Critique of Pure Reason, Translated by Norman Kemp Smith, London, Macmillan. http://www.hkbu.edu.hk/~ppp/cpr/toc.html.
KANT, IMMANUEL (1788)(1997) Critique of Practical Reason, Translated by Mary Gregor (ed.), Cambridge University Press, Cambridge.
KANT, IMMANUEL (1788)(1898)(2006) The Critique of Practical Reason, Translated by Thomas Kingsmill Abbott, London, Longmans, Green, and Co. http://philosophy.eserver.org/kant/critique-of-practical-reaso.txt
KANT, IMMANUEL (1791)(2001) ‘On The Miscarriage of All Philosophical Trials in Theodicy’, in Religion and Rational Theology, Translated by George di Giovanni and Allen Wood, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
OXFORD DICTIONARY OF SCIENCE (2010) Oxford, Oxford University Press.
PIRIE, MADSEN (2006)(2015) How To Win Every Argument, Bloomsbury, London.
LANGER, SUSANNE K (1953)(1967) An Introduction to Symbolic Logic, Dover Publications, New York. (Philosophy).
NIGOSIAN, S.A (1994) World Faiths, St. Martins Press, New York.
POJMAN, LOUIS P. (1996) Philosophy: The Quest for Truth, New York, Wadsworth Publishing Company.
SZUDEK, ANDY & TORSLEY, SARAH (2018) The Little Book of Philosophy, Landau Cecile (Ed), London, DK Publishing
THE CONCISE OXFORD DICTIONARY (1995) Della Thompson (ed.), Oxford, Clarendon Press.
Cited:
ReplyDelete".... but in Jesus Christ, finite sinfulness of humanity is covered by the applied atoning and resurrection work of Jesus Christ (see Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Hebrews, as examples)"
Well, please allow me to share my viewpoint.
Explicitly... Yes.
But implicitly, it has a deep meaning. It is not Jesus, but His Word (commandment) which guides human to the right path, that is what saves mankind. Resurrection in a deep sense is the transformation of human from darkness to light (goodness) by following His Word. The initial salvation, redemption and resurrection of Jesus for mankind will be in vain if human subsequently forget His Word.
Nonetheless, the church bell will always call out the scattered souls. As if want to say: "I calls you. Will you come?"
See it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbpZCeKQ-Zg
and its contemplation here:
https://love-ely.blogspot.com/2008/12/christmas-contemplation-when-bell.html
Cited:
"I realize Hinduism has multifaceted views within. Buddhism as well has multifaceted views."
The view is not the core. Arguing the view is not wise. Well, many way to Rome. No matter of what is your direction, as long as guiding human to overcome their evil side, to the goodness (to Rome).
And... there is the parable of the good Samaritan in the Bible.
I'm sorry for my slightly different views.
Part 1
ReplyDeleteDr. Russ Cited:
".... but in Jesus Christ, finite sinfulness of humanity is covered by the applied atoning and resurrection work of Jesus Christ (see Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Hebrews, as examples)"
Citing tinko:
'Well, please allow me to share my viewpoint.
Explicitly... Yes.
But implicitly, it has a deep meaning. It is not Jesus, but His Word (commandment) which guides human to the right path, that is what saves mankind. Resurrection in a deep sense is the transformation of human from darkness to light (goodness) by following His Word. The initial salvation, redemption and resurrection of Jesus for mankind will be in vain if human subsequently forget His Word.'
Thanks, tikno, by stating it is his Word/commandment and not Jesus, that saves us, you are holding to a form of works righteousness. No, that does not save humankind and lead to eventual resurrection. Humanity is tainted by sinful nature and related (Romans 1-3) and all works are not holy in themselves. This taint, granted, is not fully removed until the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15, Revelation 20-22), so Christians still struggle with sin (I John as example). There will also be fake Christians, but that is up to God to judge, post-mortem (Revelation 20-22).
Ephesians 2: 8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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Those in Christ are saved by grace through faith (ALONE implied), by the atoning and resurrection work of Christ, through the triune God, applied to them. This is for good works in Christ, in salvation, but not by salvific human works. Resurrection and moral perfection (finite moral perfection) in salvation is also a gift of God to believers (1 Corinthians 15, Revelation 20-22).
James 2: 17 English Standard Version (ESV)
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
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Works in the gospel, in Jesus Christ are a sign of being alive via God in regeneration (John 3, Titus 3). These works in salvation, from believers are not the cause or the path of salvation. They are a result of salvation.
Galatians 2: 15 English Standard Version (ESV)
15 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16 yet we know that a person is not justified[a] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
a) Galatians 2:16 Or counted righteous (three times in verse 16); also verse 17
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Justification is being legally justified in the imputed righteousness of Jesus Christ to believers in the applied atonement (Romans 1-6, Galatians as key examples).
Hebrews 6:2 English Standard Version (ESV)
6 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and of instruction about washings,[a] the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.
a) Hebrews 6:2 Or baptisms (that is, cleansing rites)
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Works righteousness alone is dead works. Again, humanity is tainted by sin (Romans 1-3 in particular) and needs regeneration to be guided by God the Holy Spirit to good works in Christ.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteDr. Russ Cited:
"I realize Hinduism has multifaceted views within. Buddhism as well has multifaceted views."
Citing tikno:
The view is not the core. Arguing the view is not wise. Well, many way to Rome. No matter of what is your direction, as long as guiding human to overcome their evil side, to the goodness (to Rome).
And... there is the parable of the good Samaritan in the Bible
Is is wise to argue against error at times, and in our friendly Blogger forum here. I reason although Hinduism/Buddhism, both definitely have some troths they are is error in regards to the revealed nature of God and salvation. This revealed through the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. It is a theological review and not a personal attack against those with different views, whatsoever. Again you are stating works righteousness. This is taught in error by many world religions. Perhaps read Romans, my friend. Please pray if I am writing you the truth. But, I respect your right to hold to different views...
Blessings and love, to you and family, tikno.
I'm sorry. My consciousness is not looking for differences in views, even though there are denominations in Christian. I avoided the terms of Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Anglican, Pentecostal, etc. Likewise Buddhist teachings from India, China, Tibet, etc. Hinduism from Bali island or from India, or Islamic teachings from here or there.
ReplyDeleteI love what Dalai Lama said about what is the best religion. The best religion is your religion that leads you closer to God (your Creator) and makes you a better person.
Lets us together promoting the goodness and you already have the same view with me.
Citing Dr. Russell:
ReplyDelete"Works righteousness alone is dead works."
Hhmmm... only God knows.
Hi tikno
ReplyDeleteThank you for the comments.
Cited
I love what Dalai Lama said about what is the best religion. The best religion is your religion that leads you closer to God (your Creator) and makes you a better person.
Lets us together promoting the goodness and you already have the same view with me.
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Yes, we can work together in the world to promote goodness, agreed. I can with work with people of various worldviews on many issues.
However, in regards to an overall worldview, your religious presentation and mine, fundamentally disagree on the nature of the gospel versus works righteousness.
Cited
Citing Dr. Russell:
"Works righteousness alone is dead works."
Hhmmm... only God knows.
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God knows, as revealed in the religious, biblical, history of scripture, and as I documented, non-exhaustively. I also used theology and philosophy in the process.
Blessings to you and family.
Russ
As my previous comments, that I felt the presence of the Almighty not from any documentations / theology or academical study / doctrine / worldview. Since I was young, I liked to search and learn the essence of widely known religious teachings, be it Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism. Even my big family have those religions that I mentioned above.
ReplyDeleteUntil one day when I saw my wife's womb through the ultrasound monitor. I saw a miracle in the womb. There is life. There is the process of life that can't be done by human knowledge. At that time I felt my consciousness was opened and felt His Greatness. Feels like my soul filled by His mercy, His blessing, His Divine. I'm silence for a few moment and my tear fall. Thankful to God, finally You give me enlightenment for my searching for the essence of religious teachings. That is LOVE.
From Christianity, I'm following the Great Commandment of Jesus Christ: 1) Love your Lord (God) with all your heart, soul, and mind. 2) Love your neighbor (fellow human) as yourself.
From Buddhism, I'm following: 1) Love all living creatures. 2) What Dalai Lama said about what is the best religions.
From Taoism, I'm following: 1) The balance of life. 2) Cause and Effect.
From Islam, I'm following: There is no God but Allah (the concept of Oneness).
From Hinduism, I'm following: 1) Letting your God live in you. 2) Everyone is an aspect of God. Everyone is expected to radiate the glory, the light of God, and become light to themselves and their children.
Maybe you are curious about my religion. That's not important. But I will answer I'm Christian and feels free to go to any church, whatever of their denominations. At this occasion I'm begging to Christian brothers if you believe in the name of Jesus, I'm begging you please return to the beginning of Christianity, let's back to the Bible. My divine consciousness told me that Jesus did NOT teach you to create many denominations of Christianity. I'm begging you Dr. Russell, will you unite them in the name of Father, Son, and Holly Spirit. Let the world only knows one Christianity.
Thanks for this discussion. No debate anymore for views and doctrine. That's endless if using the finite human brain. See you next time. May God bless you.
Citations are in quote marks
ReplyDelete'Citations'
'As my previous comments'
Greetings tikno
Thanks for the comments. This will be the last comments from either one of us in our present debate. Any more comments will be unread and deleted. This is because based on your comments we are going in circles. You have had your significant say, and as the owner of the content on this Blogger website, I have the right to end the discussion.
Our debate, which you initiated on this website, was NOT about different denominations. It was about different worldviews and different religious worldviews. These were well-answered, non-exhaustively, by me. You generally, do not agree with the answers. That is your right, but they were answered.
'Since I was young, I liked to search and learn the essence of widely known religious teachings, be it Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Confucianism. Even my big family have those religions that I mentioned above.'
I, as well, have studied many religious and non-religious worldviews.
'From Christianity, I'm following the Great Commandment of Jesus Christ: 1) Love your Lord (God) with all your heart, soul, and mind. 2) Love your neighbor (fellow human) as yourself.
From Buddhism, I'm following: 1) Love all living creatures. 2) What Dalai Lama said about what is the best religions.
From Taoism, I'm following: 1) The balance of life. 2) Cause and Effect.
From Islam, I'm following: There is no God but Allah (the concept of Oneness).
From Hinduism, I'm following: 1) Letting your God live in you. 2) Everyone is an aspect of God. Everyone is expected to radiate the glory, the light of God, and become light to themselves and their children.'
Yes, there is truth in other religions. There is truth in other worldviews, such as atheism. These various worldviews agree and disagree on various points.
Jesus said in John 14: 6
John 14:6
New American Standard Bible
6 Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.
'I'm begging you Dr. Russell, will you unite them in the name of Father, Son, and Holly Spirit. Let the world only knows one Christianity.'
With John 14: 6 we have an example of a clear claim of the exclusivity of the gospel for salvation.
The Church of Jesus Christ is united in the one true gospel. But it is not united under one human organization or local church/churches. There are differences and disagreements. But, it is based on the gospel work of Christ applied to regenerated (John 3, Titus 3) believers, not on works righteousness (Ephesians 1-2. Romans, Galatians, Hebrews, as examples).
'Thanks for this discussion. No debate anymore for views and doctrine. That's endless if using the finite human brain. See you next time. May God bless you.'
So, tikno, this is the end of our debate. I will not continue to publish your objections to my views. It becomes a waste of time for both of us. Again, I have answered them and we are going in circles. My work in Christ, by the guidance of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit is to discuss worldviews and doctrine in truth and in love, but I am not obligated to endlessly discuss it with persons that disagree with repeated, answered, objections.
I am not going to give up my research and writing simply because someone disagrees with the content and cannot debunk it. Nor, am I going to endlessly debate repeated answered objections. Nor, I am going to ask you to stop writing and promoting worldviews and religious worldviews, I think are in error. That is between you and God.
Blessings to you and family, tikno.