An interesting and somewhat controversial section from my PhD thesis below. I have noted previously I have found Augustine, at least translated into English, how I read him, difficult to read and quite repetitive to work through. I am not doubting his historical greatness as a philosopher and theologian, but I think my point stands.
The confusion for the better part of 2, 000 years whether or not Augustine is a compatibilist like Calvin, Feinberg and me and many in the Reformed camp that hold to a very strong view on God's sovereignty, or is an incompatiblist like Plantinga and many evangelicals that hold to various forms of libertarian free will demonstrates this confusion.
It should be pointed out that there is a good amount of agreement with these views on some points that could add to the confusion at times. This is because they are both, even though one uses compatibilism and the other incompatibilism, within Christian Biblical/theological orthodoxy, whereas John Hick's theodicy, for example, primarily would not be.
Libertarian free will is usually viewed as a form of indeterminism. The concept in libertarian free will is that a person is able to perform another action in the place of one that has been committed. This action cannot be predetermined by any circumstance or desire. Norman Geisler explains that indeterminism is defined as the idea that there are no antecedent (preceding conditions) or simultaneous (at the same time) causes of human actions. All human actions are free if a person could have done otherwise. Indeterminism is also equated with incompatibilism which states that God, or any other being, cannot cause by force or coercion any human action, nor can any action be simultaneously willed by God or any other being, for the human action to remain significantly free. Compatibilism, which I hold to, would agree with incompatibilism that God or any other being cannot cause by force or coercion any significantly free human action, but contrary to incompatibilism thinks that God can simultaneously will significantly free human actions.
Calvin on Augustine
I include this section because as Augustine is listed as a forefather of free will theodicy,
as his ancient view would be considered incompatibilistic according to modern philosophy.
Calvin, however, throughout
The Bondage and Liberation of the Will claims that Augustine supports his case for a free will theory in which human beings are in bondage to sin, unable to follow God on their own.
As an academic I cannot, in good conscience, use both Augustine and Calvin in this thesis without dealing with this matter.
As Augustine wrote a free will theodicy,
which included the idea that human beings require the ability to freely choose or reject God, in order to please the Almighty.
A.N.S. Lane (1996) notes that one problem with Calvin and his use of Augustine was Calvin rejected the use of the term
free choice.
Calvin did state that although he rejected the term,
he believed his views to be in line with Augustine on human free will, that the will was free in the sense that it was not coerced but voluntary and self-determined.
Lane states that after centuries of debates between Catholic and Protestant scholars, many concluded Calvin correctly understood Augustine.
When reading Augustine’s theodicy, it appears to be supporting incompatibilism as human beings are noted to have the ability to freely choose or reject God.
He states that a human being could not act rightly unless he/she willed to do so,
and to do that the person must have free will in order to act rightly.
Calvin notes that this concept of free choice by Augustine would not be applicable to a fallen will, and could only be applied to Adam and Eve before the fall in Genesis occurred.
This point by Calvin, however, was never clearly demonstrated in Augustine’s writings; instead, Augustine has been viewed historically as a theologian who held to free will theory
within incompatibilist freedom in modern terms, and a strong view of God’s sovereignty.
Feinberg believes that Augustine was not the ancient equivalent of a modern compatibilist,
but made the error of writing a theodicy, which featured free will and incompatibilist thought, and yet held to a theory of God’s sovereignty, which would necessitate some type of determinism.
It would seem Augustine either made a logical error in accepting the ancient equivalents of incompatibilist human free choice and compatibilist sovereignty for God,
or he simply failed to adequately explain the connection in particular whether or not his free will theodicy applied equally to pre-fall and post-fall humanity.
Lane points out that Calvin,
in
The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, lacked the library resources needed and loosely quoted Augustine.
Calvin was familiar with Augustine’s traditionally strong view of God’s sovereignty,
and perhaps he rightly or wrongly interpreted that sovereignty as applying to Augustine’s concept of free will.
I would postulate in agreement with Feinberg that Augustine’s free will theodicy appears to be incompatibilistic in regard to human free will and is likely compatibilistic in regard to God’s sovereignty.
The connection between the two concepts seems not to be adequately explained by Augustine.
Rowan A. Greer states that it was realized by Augustine there was a difficulty holding to free will theodicy and a strong view of God’s sovereignty.
Greer concluded that Augustine always maintained a free will approach,
and held that God had sovereign control in the universe to punish evildoers.
Greer thought Augustine’s solution to the problem that his free will theodicy perhaps contradicted his views on sovereignty, would be to restrict the concept of free will to Adam and Eve before the fall.
It should be pointed out that this is Greer’s assumption
and, although it agrees with Calvin’s idea,
Greer speculates that Augustine viewed his free will idea as appropriate for Adam and Eve before the fall, and not for humanity after it.
Greer however, like Calvin,
was not able to produce a distinct Augustine reference that stated this, and so in my mind this supports the idea that it is still unknown whether or not Augustine, when discussing this idea of human freedom, was including post-fall humanity in that concept.
It is therefore reasonable to deduce that Augustine quite possibly held that fallen humanity still had some ability to freely choose and reject God,
which would place him in the incompatibilism camp in regard to human free choice.
Regardless of Calvin’s views,
in modern scholarship Augustine and his free will theodicy are primarily reviewed within incompatibilist camp.
AUGUSTINE (388-395)(1964) On Free Choice of the Will, Translated by Anna S.Benjamin and L.H. Hackstaff, Upper Saddle River, N.J., Prentice Hall.
CALVIN, JOHN (1543)(1996) The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, Translated by G.I. Davies, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.
FEINBERG, JOHN.S. (1994) The Many Faces of Evil, Grand Rapids, Zondervan Publishing House.
GEISLER, NORMAN L. (1986) Predestination and Free Will, Downers Grove, Illinois, InterVarsity Press.
GEISLER, NORMAN L. (1996) ‘Freedom, Free Will, and Determinism’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.
GREER, ROWAN A. (1996) ‘Augustine’s Transformation of The Free Will Defence’, in Faith and Philosophy, Volume 13, Number 4, October, pp. 471-486. Wilmore, Kentucky, Asbury College.
LANE, A.N.S. (1543)(1996) ‘Introduction’, in The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, by John Calvin, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.
MCCANN, HUGH J. (2001) ‘Sovereignty and Freedom: A Reply to Rowe’, in Faith and Philosophy, Volume 18, Number 1, January, pp. 110-116. Wilmore, Kentucky, Asbury College.
PETERSON, MICHAEL, WILLIAM HASKER, BRUCE REICHENBACH, AND DAVID BASINGER (1996)(eds.), ‘Introduction: Saint Augustine: Evil is Privation of Good’, in Philosophy of Religion, Oxford, Oxford University Press.
Peterson, Hasker, Reichenbach, and Basinger (1996: 231).
Thanks for that explanation. You make me feel comfortable with where I was heading on the distinction between Calvin and Augustine.
ReplyDeleteSo I presume you weren't compelled to learn Latin as part of your studies? UC Berkeley Extension teaches a weekend Latin class that was one of the options I was considering before signing up for Hebrew.
Welcome. As great as Augustine was and is within our Christian worldview, he may have caused much of this with his writing, but I should again acknowledge the problem of the English translation.
ReplyDeleteWith the little bit of Latin translating (looking up words) I have done from time to time over the years, I would deduce Latin would be quite a bit easier to learn than New Testament Greek. Prior to attending Manchester I did order a German online course, but my stay there was not long enough to attempt to learn that language as I soon moved on to Wales. I think with all the theology and philosophy I had to learn, plus some social research methods/statistics from a Master's level text, learning German would have been a colossal waste of time. Yes, Kant ended up significant in my thesis but I could quote him accurately in English, no problem.
It would be nice and very good to know Latin and Hebrew but once one is in the type of Theology, Philosophy, Biblical Studies track I am on there is so much material to learn apart from new languages and I still need to do Greek exegesis at times as part of that work. Basically, heavily linguistic and philosophical academic tracks are usually separate.
I can appreciate the problem of too much material! Did you need to deal with the distinction between Koine and Attic Greek?
ReplyDeleteNo.
ReplyDeleteI remember discussing in my Greek courses the differences between Koine Greek, modern Greek, Latin and English.
Yes, too much material, and also with the academic subjects of theodicy, the problem of evil, the nature of God and atheism they are more within the philosophy of religion/philosophical theology camps and require less linguistic knowledge than subjects very closely related to Romans, for example.
Cheers.
Some of those English gardens seem almost impossibly perfect.
ReplyDeleteSo what does Calvin think of Hobbes?
ReplyDelete'chucky said...
ReplyDeleteSome of those English gardens seem almost impossibly perfect.'
A very impressive aspect of England and the British Isles.
Robin and Sally Tango
ReplyDeleteI'm so used to Facebook that I find myself looking for the 'Like' button for each of the comments here!
ReplyDeleteHow Successful Blogging is Just Like Surviving Highschool
ReplyDeleteI used to believe that God predetermined that those who would, of their own free will, accept Christ as their personal Savior, would be destined to spend eternity with Him in Paradise. Therefore God predestined them because of the choice they made of their own free will (or the choice He knew they would make).
ReplyDeleteHowever, the problem with that is that, if God merely 'chose' people who He foreknew would accept Him, that is not really choosing at all. That is merely knowing in advance who is going to choose Him. That's like me knowing what the weather will be like tomorrow, or knowing who will be elected President in the future. Foreknowledge is not the same as choosing.
I was in BSF Int'l (Bible Study Fellowship) for 3 1/2 years, which was the best and most intensive Bible Study I have ever been in. One year I was a discussion leader for a class of about 30 men. One year we spent studying Romans intensely, and as a result, I came to accept the doctrine of Election. So now I believe that God chooses some to demonstrate His grace upon (a remnant---and throughout the Bible there are many cases of God choosing a remnant), and the rest He leaves to their own free will, who in effect serve to demonstrate God's justice (because of the fact that no one, because of man's fallen nature and rebellious heart, is able to freely choose God without God's intervention; without the gift of faith and the Holy Spirit doing a work in their heart...in other words, the spiritually dead cannot choose life, because they are spiritually blind and dead).
'I'm so used to Facebook that I find myself looking for the 'Like' button for each of the comments here!'
ReplyDeleteBetter than dislike.:)
Here are the points:
ReplyDelete'1. Work hard
2. Get involved
3. Be on-time/present
4. Do your homework
5. Make a diverse circle of friends
6. Keep your locker stacked
7. Be excessively happy
8. Stay focused
9. Go out on dates
10. Get in the yearbook'
'I used to believe that God predetermined that those who would, of their own free will, accept Christ as their personal Savior, would be destined to spend eternity with Him in Paradise. Therefore God predestined them because of the choice they made of their own free will (or the choice He knew they would make).'
ReplyDeleteClassic evangelical free will theology.
'However, the problem with that is that, if God merely 'chose' people who He foreknew would accept Him, that is not really choosing at all. That is merely knowing in advance who is going to choose Him. That's like me knowing what the weather will be like tomorrow, or knowing who will be elected President in the future. Foreknowledge is not the same as choosing.'
Agreed.
Ephesians 1. Ephesians 2 also important for grace through faith unto works.
Romans 8.
Election demonstrates God chooses his followers, his believers.
Also in John 3, one in born again by a move of the Spirit of God, not by free will choice of persons.
'in other words, the spiritually dead cannot choose life, because they are spiritually blind and dead).'
Yes.
Thanks for visit in my blog... God Bless you too!!
ReplyDeleteThank you kindly for the return visit, Katia.
ReplyDeleteI hope all is well in Brazil.
Enjoyed the dance clip with the young couple doing the tango, nicely done!
ReplyDelete-Happy Dancer-
It is good they have something to do together...
ReplyDeleteWow!
ReplyDeleteAloha from Waikiki
Comfort Spiral
> < } } ( ° >
Cheers, Cloudia.
ReplyDeleteIt looks good on my new notebook, courtesy a power outage which took out my desktop mainboard.
Lovely pictures in this post, especially appreciating the one of Dorset. Thanks for explaining the difference between Calvin and Augustine's approach. Do any have any thoughts on the compatibility of God's Omniscience and free will?
ReplyDeletePart 1
ReplyDeleteVery good question Sarah (that made her You Tube debut recently, and with way more followers on her blog than this one.);>
Thank you for the kind words, trekearth is very helpful.
From a previous shorter post where that topic is alluded to.
Predestined
Predestined (PhD)
In my mind, the concept of compatibilism, although the term is not used,[1] is implied in Scripture. The subject of predestination for salvation, for example, is a complex theological discussion and could be a topic for a Biblical Greek thesis.[2] However, within Ephesians 1,[3] ‘predestined’ which is προορίσας[4] within Ephesians 1: 5,[5] and in the context is ‘predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ’[6] and προορισθέντες[7] at Ephesians 1: 11, as in ‘we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to his purpose’[8] appear to support Reformed compatibilist notions. Strong defines proorizw[9] which is the root word connected to the forms of the word in Ephesians 1, as to limit in advance in figurative terms,[10] and to predetermine, determine before, ordain, and predestinate.[11] Bauer defines the root word as meaning to decide before hand, predestine of God and applies this definition to Ephesians 1: 5 and 11.[12] Minimally, there appears reasonable textual support from this verse[13] that could support a Reformed compatibilistic perspective on how God chooses persons for his ultimate culminated Kingdom.
Part 2
ReplyDeleteThere are incompatibilist, evangelical counters to the Reformed view.[14] Ephesians scholar Francis Foulkes (1989) explains that predestination is not in opposition to human free will.[15] The gospel of grace was offered to all persons,[16] and those persons that accepted the message were elected.[17] Foulkes insists that the human faith required rests totally on God and not in self.[18] Foulkes then shifts the issue to the idea that election is not simply salvation, but also holiness of life.[19] He defines predestined as ‘marked beforehand.’[20] It is understood as a divine, eternal plan.[21] Foulkes presentation is commendable and reasonable and although his definition is similar to that of Strong[22] and Bauer,[23] he appears to downplay a deterministic aspect of the word.[24] I do not agree, but inevitably, even with the use of linguistic sources there is room for debate and I lean toward a compatibilistic understanding based on Ephesians 1.[25] Browning, an Oxford New Testament scholar,[26] also sides with a view similar to Foulkes noting that God has a plan of salvation for humanity and persons may freely accept or reject this plan on a personal basis.[27] Within Reformed theology, election is based on God’s plan and initiative to save the elect,[28] as opposed to primarily foreknowledge[29] of human acceptance of the gospel message within a Reformed, Calvinistic framework.
[1] The term being a modern philosophical one.
[2] This is not a Biblical Studies PhD and I was therefore advised to limit my Biblical work within this thesis, but I seek accuracy in my Biblical interpretations.
[3] A key Chapter for Reformed views on compatibilism.
[4] The Greek New Testament (1993: 654).
[5] The Greek New Testament (1993: 654).
[6] The New American Standard Version Bible (1984: 1322).
[7] The Greek New Testament (1993: 655).
[8] The New American Standard Version Bible (1984: 1322).
[9] Strong (1890)(1986: 81).
[10] Strong (1890)(1986: 81).
[11] Strong (1890)(1986: 81).
[12] Bauer (1979: 709).
[13] I realize many other verses could be examined concerning this subject. I provide Ephesians 1 as a prime Reformed example within a limited space allotted for this topic.
[14] Foulkes (1989: 55).
[15] Foulkes (1989: 55).
[16] Foulkes (1989: 55). Browning (1997: 301).
[17] Foulkes (1989: 55). Browning writes that the New Testament does not state that those that reject this offer are damned to hell. Browning (1997: 301).
[18] Foulkes (1989: 55). Frankly, Foulkes does not explain how this works within his incompatibilistic system.
[19] Foulkes (1989: 55). I can agree that God does work out holiness in his people.
[20] Foulkes (1989: 56).
[21] Foulkes (1989: 56).
[22] Strong (1890)(1986: 81).
[23] Bauer (1979: 709).
[24] Foulkes (1989: 55-56).
[25] I can still consider incompatibilistic notions and other perspectives, when needed.
[26] Browning (1997: i). Browning provides an Anglican perspective.
[27] Browning (1997: 301).
[28] Calvin (1543)(1996: 200).
[29] Thiessen (1956: 344).
So, Sarah, I reason God does have omniscience and still does allow limited human compatibilistic free will/freedom, not incompatibilistic free will. But as you can see and as noted previously on other comments there is a debate within Christianity and between Reformed/Evangelicals and Evangelicals.
Cheers.
very nice pics, especially the one of the train station in England, its beautiful, like a pretend happy land!
ReplyDelete-Franz Frolic-
If you can mine the gems
ReplyDeleteand make them accessible
you will be quite a scholar!
Warm Aloha from Waikiki
Comfort Spiral
> < } } ( ° >
><}}(°>
Cloudia,
ReplyDeleteI think your point is reasonable, cheers.
1. Actually today I was contacting publishing companies and related, for the first time about the possibility of my MPhil/PhD theses in book form. This would be, if it ever occurred, a long process, but I have had a long enough break from 500+ pages of theses writing and two different surveys, which took months on their own. This would mean my MPhil and especially PhD work would be simplified and some of the annoying Wales/UK citations that often appear on my blog too numerously eliminated.
2. Satire and theology, which accounts for about 60% of my approximately 100, 000 yearly pageviews is a watered down and yet still academic version of my work. I still need this Dr. Russell Norman Murray blog as my professional, academic lead, but the truth is satire and theology, my second blog, is the lead with hits and pageviews and is more teachable for many persons. Many have told me so and that is fine. That is one reason I have two blogs. Satire and theology is also a more personal work.
I'm grateful that they showed the way 'cause I could never know the way to serve Him on my own, I want to be a clone!
ReplyDeleteThis Steve Taylor song from the '80s unfortunately still represents how many Christians think (or rather, don't).
Judge Napolitano got himself fired for telling the truth.
ReplyDeleteLet us not be Christian clones.
ReplyDeleteJudge Napolitano should not have been fired for giving opinion.
ReplyDelete