Saturday, June 15, 2024

J.S. Whale (Wales PhD Edit)

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J.S. Whale (Wales PhD Edit)

Preface

This is selected PhD material that cites the work of J.S. Whale (John Sheldon). Originally published 20131015, but revised for an entry on academia.edu, 20240615. I noticed that I did not include the full footnotes originally. This article will be republished 20240615 on Blogger as well. Slight revisions only.

Note that my writing for my PhD was completed within the rules, regulations and standards of British academia. This work is not primarily a series of my theological and philosophical views, although included in places.

2010 Theodicy and Practical Theology: PhD thesis, the University of Wales, Trinity Saint David, Lampeter 

Saturday, September 19, 2020: PhD Full Version PDF: Theodicy and Practical Theology 2010, Wales TSD
_____________________________________

The Bible

J.S. Whale (1958) explains that within Protestant thought the Bible represents the whole counsel of God and nothing can be added whether by new revelation or tradition.[1]  Whale, however, correctly warns against the idea of the Bible becoming a law book,[2] and the Scripture needs to stay a historical living word as opposed to a narrow book of rules.[3] This goes back to Erickson’s point that God’s word, although an unchanging message must be interpreted for each era.[4] This in no way allows for an overhaul of major, traditional Christian doctrines from traditional and Reformed perspectives,[5] but with the use of practical and empirical approaches there would be opportunities to understand Christian theology in modern terms.[6]  In other words, the very same Biblical doctrines that were given in the contexts of ancient Israel, Europe, Asia, and Africa need to be explained in the contexts of twenty-first century Western civilization, and other societies in the world. Theological principles would remain the same, but theological application can vary within eras and locations.[7]

Infant baptism 

Whale reasons infant baptism demonstrates that Christ did something for a person, without waiting for human approval.[8] Rebaptism[9] would never be needed as although baptized Roman Catholics can turn from the faith, if they do turn back to Christ the initial baptism is sufficient.[10] The sacrament of infant baptism is one of the ‘foundational stones of Church.’[11]  Klein, Blomberg and Hubbard reason it is not Biblically clear what type of baptism should be practiced.[12] Infant baptism is not taught in Scripture directly,[13] and therefore it can be deduced the same could be stated for the associated concepts of baptismal regeneration with Roman Catholics[14] and Eastern Orthodox[15] Churches. However, legitimate theological inference leads to concepts of infant baptism,[16] and so there are also historical arguments for baptismal regeneration within the Christian community which includes Catholic,[17]  Eastern Orthodox,[18] and even in some cases Presbyterian,[19] Lutheran and Episcopal.[20]

The Resurrection 

Whale writes that the resurrection is not to be considered an addition to the Christian faith, but is the Christian faith.[21]  Theologian Robert B. Sloan (1991) reasons that for early Christians the resurrection vindicated Christ in regard to his detractors and gave his message authority.[22] Jürgen Moltmann writes that as the crucified one, the risen Christ is available for humanity.[23] Moltmann explains to some the resurrection of Christ is a counter to the abandonment of humanity of God while Christ was on the cross.[24]  For certain observers Christ’s resurrection for all turns them from atheism.[25] This may be because the historical resurrection of Christ would be viewed as God actually participating in the world to remedy the problem of evil.[26] God would not only be judging the world as he did on the cross,[27] but actually bringing about resolution to the problem of evil through Christ[28] and from a human perspective this makes a belief and trust in the Biblical God reasonable and worthwhile. 

Transcendence 

J.S. Whale explains transcendence makes God inaccessible and unknowable to finite creatures.[29] For Whale, Christ revealed the nature of the transcendent God in his life and ministry.[30] According to Kreeft and Tacelli, God is not part of the physical universe, and is not limited by the universe.[31] God is the creator of the universe and all things, and is ‘other’ than the universe.[32]

Expiation/Propitiation

Whale writes that expiation means God himself purges or covers human sin.[33] To state that Christ expiates sin[34] means that his atoning work enables God to forgive sins[35] and gradually, and eventually, purge sinfulness out of obedient followers.[36] Palma explains that some argue propitiation must be rejected in favour of expiation, since propitiation and its divine wrath is a concept that comes from pagan origins where pagan deities were appeased through sacrifice.[37] He reasons that within the New Testament, propitiation includes the idea of expiation, but expiation does not necessarily include the idea of propitiation.[38]  James Strong explains that the word under review in Romans 3: 25, hilasterion, (λαστήριον) is defined as an expiatory place or thing, an ‘atoning victim’ along with ‘mercyseat’ and ‘propitiation.’[39] This definition, although somewhat vague[40] does not contradict Palma’s concept that propitiation does include the idea of expiation.[41] From Strong’s definition, Romans 3: 25 does perhaps allow for the idea of atonement in both the sense of sacrifice and appeasement.[42] However, his definition does place more emphasis on expiation than propitiation in the atonement process in Romans 3: 25.[43]

Walter Bauer writes that the meaning in Romans 3: 25 is uncertain and could be either expiates or propitiates.[44] According to Strong the definition of the word from 1 John 2:2 and 4:10 is ‘atonement’ along with ‘expiator’ and ‘propitiation’ and so 1 John does not solve the issue from Romans.[45] Since this thesis is primarily concerned with theodicy and atonement is a secondary, but important issue, let me conclude by stating that the Greek word allows for discussion and various interpretation.[46] Some within liberal, progressive Christian traditions may insist that expiation is all that is required within the atoning work of Christ;[47] while others such as myself, within moderate conservative traditions may conclude expiation and propitiation, both sacrifice and appeasement are reasonable concepts within Christian atonement.[48]

Suffering/Death 

Whale writes creation has an ultimate meaning that is not disclosed until the end where the final purpose becomes clear.[49]  Death is the ultimate end of temporal suffering and Whale reasons that natural phenomenon does not completely explain it as human beings are not purely natural, but also posses God’s image.[50] It seems, from a traditional Christian perspective, that in death, resurrection and judgment, the plan symbol[51] of God finally culminates. According to Moltmann, through the history of the crucified and risen Christ, lies the consummation of the Kingdom of God that sets things free and provides them with meaning.[52]

Vicarious Suffering

Specifically, the term ‘vicarious’ is usually, within Christian theology, used in the context of atonement and means ‘in the place of’[53] and that Christ died in the place of sinful humanity. [54]  Whale reasons ‘vicarious suffering’ consists of one taking suffering for another.[55] 

Cosmology 

Whale writes that cosmology is looking at the cosmos and visible universe from a theistic perspective denying that it is self-explanatory.[56] Pojman mentions that theistic versions of cosmology deduce something outside of the universe is required to explain its existence.[57] Paul Edwards (1973) explains cosmology reasons that all things come into being through other things,[58] and since a causal series of events cannot go back in infinity, there must be a first cause.[59] Thomas Aquinas is famous for discussing The Five Ways and his cosmological argument within Summa Theologica.[60] Plantinga reasons that aspects of Aquinas’ presentation[61] are reasonable, but overall the argument is unsuccessful.[62] I reason this does not render all arguments for first cause unsuccessful, but Plantinga points out difficulties with Aquinas’ approach,[63] which is perhaps too extensive.[64] Edwards comments[65] would adequately explain a more modest and reasonable idea concerning first cause.[66] 

_____________________

[1] Whale (1958: 15).

[2] Whale (1958: 15).

[3] Whale (1958: 15).

[4] Erickson (1994: 37).

[5] Whale (1958: 15).

[6] Pattison and Woodward (2000)(2007: 14-15).

[7] Whale (1958: 15).  Erickson (1994: 37).

[8] Whale (1958: 158).

[9] Or Believer’s Baptism as it is known within Baptist and Anabaptist theology.

[10] Schreck (1984: 129). 

[11] Whale (1958: 158). Whale does not view infant baptism as mere dedication or as a rite effecting regeneration and so his position is not identical to Schreck’s, although he does support the sacrament being practiced.

[12] Klein, Blomberg, and Hubbard (1993: 140).

[13] Klein, Blomberg, and Hubbard (1993: 140).

[14] Schreck (1984: 124). 

[15] Kavanagh (1999: 300).

[16] Klein, Blomberg, and Hubbard (1993: 140).

[17] Schreck (1984: 124). 

[18] Kavanagh (1999: 300).

[19] John Calvin raised the possibility that in some cases baptismal regeneration could take place in infants.  Calvin (1539)(1998: Book IV, Chapter 14, 17-20). There are some Presbyterians that take this view.  However, I am a member of a Presbyterian Church in America that believes in infant baptism, but not in baptismal regeneration.  

[20] Kavanagh (1999: 300).  In Lutheran theology infant baptism and baptismal regeneration must be accompanied by the faith of the parents or future faith of the infant at a more mature age.  Some Lutherans and Presbyterians would reject any concept of baptismal regeneration.  Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 19).

[21] Whale (1958: 69).

[22] Sloan (1991: 449).

[23] Moltmann (1993: 195).

[24] Moltmann (1993: 195).

[25] Moltmann (1993: 195).

[26] Others such as Darrow, Phillips, and Flew would be very skeptical of this concept.  Phillips (2005: 247-275).  Darrow (1928)(1973: 266-267).  Flew (1983)(1996: 92). If one does not believe in the resurrection of Christ, God’s key witness to the world that he wishes to save it from the problem of evil is gone.  The remedy to sin and death would be non-existent and therefore concepts of a perfected world far-fetched.

[27] Moltmann (1993: 195).

[28] Moltmann (1993: 195).

[29] Whale (1958: 56).

[30] Whale (1958: 109).

[31] Kreeft and Tacelli (1994: 93).

[32] Kreeft and Tacelli (1994: 93).

[33] Whale (1958: 81).

[34] Whale (1958: 81).

[35] Whale (1958: 81).

[36] Whale (1958: 81).

[37] Palma (2007: 1).

[38] Palma (2007: 1).

[39] Strong (1890)(1986: 48).

[40] Strong (1890)(1986: 48).

[41] Palma (2007: 1).

[42] Strong (1890)(1986: 48).

[43] Strong (1890)(1986: 48).

[44] Bauer (1979: 375).

[45] Strong (1890)(1986: 49).

[46] Palma (2007: 1).

[47] Dodd (1935: 82-95).

[48] Erickson (1994: 809-810).  Strong (1890)(1986: 48).  Bauer (1979: 375).

[49] Whale (1958: 164).

[50] Whale (1958: 166).

[51] van der Ven (1993: 173).  van der Ven (1998: 212-213).

[52] Moltmann (1993: 338).

[53] Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 120).

[54] Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 120).

[55] Whale (1958: 81-82).

[56] Whale (1958: 22).

[57] Pojman (1996: 37).

[58] Edwards (1973: 377-378).

[59] Edwards (1973: 377-378).

[60] Aquinas, Thomas (1261)(1920) Summa Theologica, Translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province, London, Fathers of the English Dominican Province.

[61] Aquinas, Thomas (1261)(1920).

[62] Plantinga (1977)(2002: 80).

[63] Aquinas, Thomas (1261)(1920).

[64] Aquinas’ presentation although classic and important, is very speculative and Plantinga has disagreements with his overall work.  Plantinga (1977)(2002: 80). Geivett reasons Plantinga is too negative concerning natural theology as possibly working.  Geivett (1993: 59-60). 

[65] Edwards (1973: 377-378).

[66] Grenz and Olson (1992: 16).

____________________

AQUINAS, THOMAS (1261)(1920) Summa Theologica, Translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province, London, Fathers of the English Dominican Province. 

BAUER, WALTER. (1979) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Translated by Eric H. Wahlstrom, Chicago, The University of Chicago Press.

BROMILEY, G.W. (1996) ‘Baptism, Infant’, in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

BROWNING, W.R.F. (1997) ‘Propitiation' in Oxford Dictionary of the Bible, Oxford, Oxford University Press. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1539)(1998) The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book II, Translated by Henry Beveridge, Grand Rapids, The Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College.Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html  

CALVIN, JOHN (1539)(1998) The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book IV, Translated by Henry Beveridge, Grand Rapids, The Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College.http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html  

CALVIN, JOHN (1540)(1973) Romans and Thessalonians, Translated by Ross Mackenzie, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.  

CALVIN, JOHN (1543)(1996) The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, Translated by G.I. Davies, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.  

CALVIN, JOHN (1550)(1978) Concerning Scandals, Translated by John W. Fraser, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.  

CALVIN, JOHN (1552)(1995) Acts, Translated by Watermark, Nottingham, Crossway Books.  

CALVIN, JOHN (1553)(1952) Job, Translated by Leroy Nixon, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.  

CALVIN, JOHN (1554)(1965) Genesis, Translated by John King, Edinburgh, The Banner of Truth Trust. 

CRANFIELD, C.E.B. (1992) Romans: A Shorter Commentary, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.  

EDWARDS, PAUL AND ARTHUR PAP (1973)(eds.), A Modern Introduction To Philosophy, New York, The Free Press. 

ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House. 

ERICKSON, MILLARD (2003) What Does God Know and When Does He Know It?  Grand Rapids, Zondervan. 

DARROW, CLARENCE (1928)(1973) ‘The Myth of the Soul’ in The Forum, October, in Paul Edwards and Arthur Pap (eds), A Modern Introduction To Philosophy, New York, The Free Press.

DODD. C.H. (1935) The Bible and the Greeks, London, Hodder and Stoughton. 

FLEW, ANTONY, R.M. HARE, AND BASIL MITCHELL (1983) (1996) ‘The Debate on the Rationality of Religious Belief’, in L.P. Pojman (ed.), Philosophy, The Quest for Truth, New York, Wadsworth Publishing Company.

GEIVETT, R. DOUGLAS (1993) Evil and the Evidence for God, Philadelphia, Temple University Press. 

GRENZ, STANLEY J., DAVID GURETZKI AND CHERITH FEE NORDLING (1999) Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms, Downers Grove, Ill., InterVarsity Press. 

GRENZ, STANLEY J. AND ROGER E. OLSON (1992) Twentieth Century Theology, Downer’s Grove, Illinois, InterVarsity Press.  

KAVANAGH, AIDAN (1999) ‘Initiation, Christian’,  in Alan Richardson and John Bowden (eds.), A New Dictionary of Christian Theology, Kent, SCM Press Ltd.  

KLEIN, WILLIAM W., CRAIG, C. BLOMBERG, AND ROBERT L. HUBBARD, JR. (1993) Introduction to Biblical Interpretation, London, Word Publishing. 

KREEFT, PETER (1988) Fundamentals of the Faith, San Francisco, Ignatius Press.  

KREEFT, PETER AND RONALD K. TACELLI (1994) Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Downers Grove, Illinois, InterVarsity Press.

LINDSELL, HAROLD (1976) The Battle for the Bible, Grand Rapids, Zondervan Publishing House.

MOLTMANN, JÜRGEN (1993) The Crucified God, Minneapolis, Fortress Press. 

MOUNCE, ROBERT H. (1995) The New American Commentary: Romans, Nashville, Broadman & Holman Publishers.

PALMA, ANTHONY (2007) ‘Propitiation’ in Enrichment Journal, Springfield Missouri, Enrichment Journal.http://enrichmentjournal.ag.org/top/Easter_2007/2007_Propitiation.pdf  

PHILLIPS, D.Z. (2005) The Problem of Evil and the Problem of God, Fortress Press, Minneapolis.

PLANTINGA, ALVIN C. (1977)(2002) God, Freedom, and Evil, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

PLANTINGA, ALVIN C. (1982) The Nature of Necessity, Oxford, Clarendon Press. 

PLANTINGA, ALVIN C. (2000) Warranted Christian Belief, Oxford, Oxford University Press. 

POJMAN, LOUIS P. (1996) Philosophy: The Quest for Truth, New York, Wadsworth Publishing Company.

SCHRECK, ALAN (1984) Catholic and Christian, Ann Arbor, Michigan, Servant Books. 

SLOAN, ROBERT B (1991) ‘Unity in Diversity’, in David Alan Black and David S. Dockery (eds.), New Testament Criticism and Interpretation, Grand Rapids, Zondervan Publishing House. 

STRONG, J. (1986) Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Pickering, Ontario, Welch Publishing Company.

THIESSEN, HENRY C. (1956) Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES (1993) Practical Theology, Translated by Barbara Schultz, AC Kampen, Netherlands, Kok Pharos Publishing House. 

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES (1998) God Reinvented?, Leiden, Brill.  

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES (2005) ‘Theodicy Items and Scheme’, in a personal email from Johannes van der Ven, Nijmegen, Radboud University, Nijmegen.  

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES (2006a) ‘Dates of Nijmegen authors’, in a personal email from Johannes van der Ven, Nijmegen, Radboud University, Nijmegen.  

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES (2006b) ‘Symbols versus Models’, in a personal email from Johannes van der Ven, Nijmegen, Radboud University, Nijmegen. 

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES, PAUL VERMEER, AND ERIC VOSSEN (1996) ‘Learning Theodicy’, in Journal of Empirical Theology, Volume 9, pp. 67-85. Kampen, The Netherlands, Journal of Empirical Theology.  

VAN DER VEN, JOHANNES AND ERIC VOSSEN (1996) Suffering: Why for God’s Sake? Grand Rapids, Eerdmans.  

WHALE, J.S. (1958) Christian Doctrine, Glasgow, Fontana Books.  

WOODWARD, JAMES AND STEPHEN PATTISON (2000)(2007)(eds.), The Blackwell Reader in Pastoral and Practical Theology, Oxford, Blackwell Publishing.

42 comments:

  1. I like the Joyce Meyer graphic. I have family members who love her.

    ReplyDelete
  2. I was baptized as an infant in a Lutheran church, but, after I got saved at age 19, I was baptized at a Baptist church by immersion, which represented my dying and being buried together with Christ and being reborn or resurrected with Him into new life, as a new creature/creation, regenerated in Him.

    Being 'sprinkled' hardly represents being buried and resurrected.

    "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." (Romans 6:4)

    Again, you can't be "buried" by a few drops on your head:

    "Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead." (Colossians 2:12)

    If sprinkling was biblical, then there would be no need for there to be much water.

    "And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized." (John 3:23)

    The eunuch went down into the water. That sounds like immersion to me.

    "And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him." (Acts 8:38)

    ReplyDelete
  3. 'Being 'sprinkled' hardly represents being buried and resurrected.'

    I think some Presbyterians and like could argue that since the baptism verses are using figurative language and metaphor that being fully immersed would not be literally buried either, as one could still come up, unlike someone that is buried in a coffin that is covered on the top and cannot come up.

    My former PCA pastor stated the New Testament is not clear on the exact mode of baptism that Jesus himself received. This is may be technically true, however, being baptized in the Jordan River and 'coming up out of the water' Mark: 1:10, implies immersion in my opinion, although I suppose sprinkling is a possibility, not likely.

    As far as practice, I have indicated on several occasions that I reason Beliver's Baptism has the most Biblical support, and direct support unlike infant baptism, most notably Matthew 28. It indicates the baptizing of disciples, which I reason is mainly adults, could be mature children, but is not infants.

    An infant is a potential disciple in my view.

    That being stated, disciples of the Apostles, Irenaeus and Origen did practice infant baptism.

    'G.W. Bromiley, who as of 1996 was Senior Professor of Church History and Historical Theology at Fuller Theological Seminary, explains that in early church history those such as Irenaeus and Origen, who were close to the apostles, were involved in baptizing children of professing believers. Bromiley (1996: 116).'

    Further practicalities, Jeff.

    Living in Florida and most of the US, moderate often warmer weather is reasonably expected and therefore full immersion in a body of water or swimming pool, reasonable.

    However, culturally, even here in Metro Vancouver full immersion is often quite impractical because of the weather, and so for our church outside of Summer and Spring when an adult requires Believer's Baptism and as we do not have a tank, sprinkling is done.

    I reason this is a valid and legitimate Biblical baptism.

    What about Christians in Iceland or the North Pole/South Pole where there may not be a large body of water readily available? I do not think that Believer's Baptism should be avoided.

    Similar possibilities exist in desert cultures.

    This is example of Whale/Erickson as in theological adaption to culture without being non-Biblical.

    Thanks, sir.

    ReplyDelete
  4. [url=http://www.tagcomic.com/]Chanel wallets[/url] http://www.tagcomic.com/

    ReplyDelete
  5. Uhh, what do comics have to do with ladies bags?

    Just wondering...

    ReplyDelete
  6. The danger of having sports figures as role models for kids....


    1. Chicago Cubs outfielder Andre Dawson on being a role model:
    "I wan' all dem kids to do what I do, to look up to me. I wan' all the kids to copulate me."



    2. New Orleans Saint RB George Rogers when asked about the upcoming season:
    "I want to rush for 1,000 or 1,500 yards, whichever comes first."



    3. And, upon hearing Joe Jacobi of the 'Skin's say:
    "I'd run over my own mother to win the Super Bowl,"
    Matt Millen of the Raiders said: "To win, I'd run over Joe's Mom, too."



    4. Torrin Polk, University of Houston receiver, on his coach, John Jenkins:
    "He treat us like mens. He let us wear earrings."



    5. Football commentator and former player Joe Theismann:
    "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."



    6. Senior basketball player at the University of Pittsburgh :
    "I'm going to graduate on time, no matter how long it takes.."





    7. Bill Peterson, a Florida State football coach:
    "You guys line up alphabetically by height."
    And, "You guys pair up in groups of three, and then line up in a circle."



    8. Boxing promoter Dan Duva on Mike Tyson going to prison:
    "Why would anyone expect him to come out smarter? He went to prison for three years, not Princeton .."



    9. Stu Grimson, Chicago Blackhawks left wing, explaining why he keeps a color photo of himself above his locker:
    "That's so when I forget how to spell my name, I can still find my clothes."



    10.. Lou Duva, veteran boxing trainer, on the Spartan training regimen of heavyweight Andrew Golota:
    "He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning, regardless of what time it is."



    11.. Chuck Nevitt , North Carolina State basketball player, explaining to Coach Jim Valvano why he appeared nervous at practice:
    "My sister's expecting a baby, and I don't know if I'm going to be an uncle or an aunt.”



    12.. Frank Layden, Utah Jazz president, on a former player:
    "I asked him, 'Son, what is it with you? Is it ignorance or apathy?
    He said, 'Coach, I don't know and I don't care.''



    13.. Shelby Metcalf, basketball coach at Texas A&M, recounting what he told a player who received four F's and one D:
    "Son, looks to me like you're spending too much time on one subject."



    14.. In the words of NC State great Charles Shackelford:
    "I can go to my left or right, I am amphibious."



    ...


    ReplyDelete
  7. Emergency Call Centre

    An Emergency Call Centre worker in London, England, has been sacked,
    much to the dismay of her colleagues who are reportedly unhappy with her
    dismissal.


    > >> * It seems a male caller dialed 999 from a mobile phone stating, "I am
    depressed and lying here on a railway line. I am waiting for the train to
    come so that I can finally meet Allah."


    "Remain calm and stay on the line ," was not considered to be an
    appropriate response.

    ReplyDelete
  8. This happened to an Englishman in France who was totally drunk.



    The French policeman stops his car and asks the gentleman if he has been drinking.

    With great difficulty, the Englishman admits that he has been drinking all day, that his daughter got married in the morning

    to a French man, and that he drank champagne and a few bottles of wine at the reception and a few glasses of single malt

    afterwards. Quite upset, the policeman proceeds to an alcotest and asks the Englishman if he knows why he has just been arrested.



    With humor, the Englishman answers: And do you know that this is a British car and that my wife is driving... on the right side???




    ReplyDelete

  9. R.C.M.P.
    A Mountie pulled a car over on the Trans
    Canada about 2 miles West of Winnipeg.

    When the Mountie asked the driver why he
    was speeding, the driver answered that he
    was a magician and a juggler and he was
    on his way to Brandon to do a show that
    night at the Shrine Circus and didn't
    want to be late.

    The Mountie told the driver he was just
    fascinated by juggling, and if the driver
    would do a little juggling for him then he
    wouldn't give him a speeding ticket.
    The driver told the Mountie that he had sent
    all of his equipment on ahead and didn't have
    anything to juggle.

    The Mountie told him that he had some flares in the trunk of his patrol car and asked if he could juggle them.

    The juggler stated that he could, so the Mountie
    got three flares, lit them and handed them to the
    juggler.
    While the man was doing his juggling act, a car
    pulled in behind the patrol car.

    A drunk, good old boy, driving through from Alberta got out and watched the performance briefly.


    He then went over to the patrol car, pulled opened
    the rear door and then got in.

    The Mountie observed him doing this and went over to the patrol car, opened the door and asked the drunk what he thought he was doing.

    The drunk then replied to the Mountie ...



    You might as well take me to jail .... "Cause there's no friggin` way I can pass that test"

    ReplyDelete
  10. This is Not Allowed!


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  12. no time to explain.. please read

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  13. '5. Football commentator and former player Joe Theismann:
    "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."'

    'Klassick';)

    ReplyDelete
  14. '"Remain calm and stay on the line ," was not considered to be an
    appropriate response.'

    Time for common sense, not robotic
    reaction.

    ReplyDelete
  15. 'You might as well take me to jail .... "Cause there's no friggin` way I can pass that test"'

    Prof. in my Justice Security course, twenty year police vet and ex-cop states most drivers here are bad.

    ReplyDelete
  16. 'Anonymous said...
    no time to explain.. please read'

    Done...

    ReplyDelete
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  33. I think some Presbyterians and like could argue that since the baptism verses are using figurative language and metaphor that being fully immersed would not be literally buried either, as one could still come up, unlike someone that is buried in a coffin that is covered on the top and cannot come up.

    That sounds completely ridiculous to me, because the "coming up" part represents resurrection, so that argument makes absolutely no sense to me.

    However, culturally, even here in Metro Vancouver full immersion is often quite impractical because of the weather, and so for our church outside of Summer and Spring when an adult requires Believer's Baptism and as we do not have a tank, sprinkling is done.

    Similar possibilities exist in desert cultures.

    I should think that, if necessary, waiting until Summer or Spring should be generally acceptable. After all, if the saved person dies before then, they are still going to Heaven, even though they have not been baptized yet. So it's not like it's a life-or-death immediate emergency. It was a couple or so years after I got saved before I was baptized by believer's baptism.

    The Lutheran and similar churches in Florida do practice sprinkling, of course, and pretty much every Baptist church I have seen has a baptismal tank. They do sometimes do baptisms at outside pools, lakes or the ocean here in Florida, but most often, in Baptist churches, it is indoors. They have even used blow-up pools at times, though not often. If the church is in some desert, or some place where a body of water is simply not available, I suppose theoretically they could use sprinkling, but the New Testament was in desert regions, so even they found places to baptize by immersion, the way I see it. I don't think baptism by sprinkling is a sin, but I do think immersion is biblically correct. However, some churches I have been to (i.e., Lutheran and Episcopal) have taught that the baby is regenerated and has now become a child of God and part of God's family and the invisible Church, simply because a few drops of water have been sprinkled on his/her head, and this is most definitely false doctrine and heresy. If water saved you, then a person could get saved by taking a shower!

    For babies, I believe dedicating the child to God is certainly acceptable and a good thing (which, I believe, is mostly for the parents' sake, for them to make a commitment to train the child in biblical doctrine and present the gospel to them, as well as being a good example to the child), but not baptism.

    ReplyDelete
  34. 'That sounds completely ridiculous to me, because the "coming up" part represents resurrection, so that argument makes absolutely no sense to me.'

    They would not see it as necessarily the resurrection motif I deduce, but would view adult/believing baptism as being in the covenant of Christ which includes atonement/resurrection.

    I do not see it as unreasonable as a point, although I hold to Believer's Baptism and was immersed.

    Personally if someone is sprinkled with Believer's Baptism I view it as valid. I also view infant baptism as valid for those that are in Christ and view it as their sign of being in the covenant as adults or mature youth. Their parents did it on their behalf and they live in it.

    To be re-baptized seems debatable as necessary, to be honest.

    I was christened at a United Church and thought the church was apostate, so I followed the best supported Biblical model.

    I personally doubt since there is some ambiguity with the Biblical record with theology and Church history that it is a primary issue.

    In the middle ages when it was determinate of following Christ in good conscience or following the Church/State, it was a primary issue. That is the root of many of the contemporary divisions with denominations.

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