Tuesday, March 08, 2005

Lecture and study notes

Lecture and study notes

FOUR VIEWS OF HELL-INTRO: Hell is a controversial topic; however it is a New Testament concept that cannot be ignored, so let us look at it both Biblically and theologically. Hell is often known as everlasting or eternal hell. According to Leon Morris, the Greek word aionion means eternal and everlasting. In regard to hell, Morris sees the idea as representing endless duration. According to Strong, aionios which is the same root word as previous, means perpetual, eternal, for ever and everlasting. According to John Walvoord, aionios usually means eternal, meaning without beginning or end, but can simply mean without end, which would be everlasting. I view God alone as being eternal, and do not view hell as part of his eternal nature, so I would conclude that hell is everlasting and not eternal. 

HELL IN THE OLD TESTAMENT: The concept is not clearly explained in the Hebrew Bible. The key word describing hell is Sheol. According to Robert A. Peterson, and others, there is a debate whether or not Sheol simply means the grave or also a hell of everlasting punishment. From my reading, this debate was not conclusive for building an O.T. case for hell. Progressive revelation is the Biblical concept that the New Testament is a further, not contradictive, more comprehensive revelation than the Hebrew Bible. It would not be shocking if hell was only eluded to, or not mentioned, in the O.T. 

HELL IN THE NEW TESTAMENT: Gehenna is one word used for hell. It represents the valley of death, and also the place of everlasting punishment. God is sovereign over Gehenna, and serves as punishment for those who reject God. There are several verses in the New Testament that use this word, such as Matthew 5:22 and 29. Sometimes the word for hell in the New Testament is Hades which is known as the grave, and where departed souls are located. This concept is seen by many to equal Old Testament Sheol. Hades, according to many including R.P. Lightner, is considered to define the intermediate state between death and future resurrection. 

In the New Testament, according to Paul, in 2 Corinthians. 5:8, departed Christians are in the presence of the Lord. They are not in Hades, as were Old Testament believers. Non-believers likely go to Hades, as is described in Luke 16, although this is a parable which some see as metaphorical only; and others see it not as metaphorical but representing an actual place out of our dimension. It appears that non-believers are resurrected and cast into the Lake of Fire, which is described in Revelation 20. The Lake of Fire, was quite possibly, another name for Gehenna. 

THE LITERAL VIEW-John F. Walvoord states that many theists who believe God is loving reject everlasting hell; however, he believes that Scripture clearly teaches everlasting punishment. He agrees that Sheol usually represents the grave in the Old Testament. However, he did explain that scholars such as Shed saw Sheol as equally Hades before the resurrection of Christ. In other words, Sheol/Hades would contain all the dead, some in the heaven part and some in the hell part. He quotes Psalm 73:24 as example of a verse that highlights the Old Testament idea of everlasting life. The writer of that verse is trusting God's council and expecting God to take them to glory, with God after death. Walvoord dealt with Jesus teaching on hell. In Matthew 5:29 and 30 Jesus talked about someone being cast into Gehenna, and in Matthew 22:33 he warned the Pharisees of hell. In Luke 12:47-48, Jesus warned of the degrees of punishment in hell. 

This seems to indicate something other than annihilation, but actual different degrees of suffering. Walvoord states Revelation 20 points out the devil, the beast and the false prophet, are thrown into the Lake of Fire along with unbelievers, and this is listed as going on forever and ever. Walvoord believes that the nature of sin against God is infinite, and thus it demands infinite punishment. I disagree and think that only God is infinite, but resurrected everlasting rebellion seemingly deserves everlasting punishment. 

THE METAPHORICAL VIEW- William V. Crockett suggests that his view is similar to that of John Calvin, and that eternal fire texts are better understood metaphorically. Crockett pointed out that metaphorical language was used throughout the New Testament, for example, heaven as a city was described in first century terms, a city surrounded by walls and gates. Today that type of metaphorical language would be obsolete. Crockett also pointed out that hell is described in places like Matthew 8:12, 2 Peter 2:17, and Jude 14 as a place of darkness. So if it were a literally fiery hell, it would not be a place of darkness. Crockett believes that hell is a place of everlasting punishment, but that it is described metaphorically in the New Testament. Crockett noted that Hades is a temporary resting place for the unsaved, until they are thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is Gehenna. 

THE PURGATORIAL VIEW - Zachary J. Hayes noted that the idea of purgatory was the interim period that attempted to explain what happens to people when they die. He stated that there is something incomplete about the situation about those who have died before the end of history, before the 2nd Advent and final judgment. The notion of purgatory is that everlasting destiny is decided at death as either heaven or hell, but not everyone seems bad enough for everlasting hell, and most do not seem good enough for heaven. Therefore, purgatory is a cleansing process postulated between death and the entrance into heaven. Hayes points out that Roman classic tradition, Christians never dealt solely with scripture for developing doctrine. So through years of reflection and experience, tradition could develop further doctrine such as purgatory. Hayes listed a verse from 2nd Maccabees Chapter 12:41-46. However, it is not accepted in the Protestant Canon or Hebrew Bible. For a New Testament example, he lists 1 Corinthians verse 3, and in 3:11-15 Paul states that there will be a day when each person's life works will be judged by fire, and Hayes suggests that it could be describing purgatory. 

However, contextually, final judgment seems to be the context, as Hayes submits many see it that was. In fact, Hayes admits that there is no clear textural proof of a doctrine of purgatory in scripture. Also, as Walvoord pointed out, the 1st Corinthians 3 discussion of things being burned up, could relate to rewards after judgment, and not one's salvation. 

THE CONDITIONAL VIEW - Clark H. Pinnock states that the traditional orthodox view of God torturing people forever is very disturbing and needs reconsideration. He favours annihilationism which allows the wicked to finally perish. Pinnock believes that terms such as everlasting punishment need not be taken to be endless torment, but rather can be defined as meaning a judgment which cannot be reversed, that leads to everlasting death. In his notes, that the concept of everlasting destruction in regard to sinners, is used throughout the New Testament such as in 2nd Thessalonians. 1:9 and Galatians 6:8, God states he will destroy the wicked. In 1st Corinthians 3:17, and Philippians 1:28, and also Romans 6:23 states that the wages of sin are death. Pinnock believes that the soul is not necessarily a mortal, but rather verses which describe soul in the New Testament, are not to be taken plain literally. Rather, human beings were created mortal and would only be immortal if resurrected by following Christ. He claims that Greek philosophy heavily influenced the Christian belief in the immortal soul. Pinnock argues that human sins are not infinite because they are committed against in infinite God, and I agree. However, sin can be everlasting and require everlasting punishment.

Pinnock suggests that evil would not be defeated if it existed in hell, and that a cosmic dualism would exist. This is a good point, however, for all intense and purposes, after final judgment, evil would no longer be a problem in God's creation as far as the universe and planet earth, which he originally created perfect and would be restored to that perfection without the problem of evil. Hell would simply be everlasting hell, and would be a special place designed for rebellion; it would not have a negative impact on God's original creation. Concerning Gehenna, as in Mark 9:48, Pinnock sees unquenchable fire as not being everlasting, but rather continuing until all the dead bodies are destroyed. This would not be everlasting punishment but would be everlasting death. He defined Luke 16:23-24 which describes Lazarus as a rich man, as metaphorical. 

Walvoord pointed out that Hebrews 9:27-28 notes a persons dies and then is judged. So the wicked exist, in his view, after death. He also points out that Revelation 20 shows people who, in Hades, being cast into the Lake of Fire, again showing that at least they exist as souls, if not soul and body. John Stott is noted to tentatively, and not dogmatically hold to an annihilationist position. He has four reasons according to Peterson. 

Firstly, the use of the word destruction in the NT is often used in regard to death, as in destruction. For example from John 3:16 those who will not believe in Christ will perish mention, everlasting hell. However, one must wonder why the Bible uses hell terminology which certainly confuses the issue, if there were no everlasting hell, and simply death. For those who will die outside of Christ, would it not be better to convey the idea of simple physical death as final judgment without facing God, or physical death, followed by judgment by God and then final death? The use of everlasting and for ever language certainly does not seem to simply convey death, although I admit that this is a possibility. Secondly, Stott views the use of the eternal fire imagery as pointing out that this will lead to the ultimate destruction of the dead outside of Christ, not their everlasting punishment. Thirdly, as did Pinnock, Stott thinks that everlasting hell is not just punishment for finite, temporal sin. However, as I pointed out in my MPhil and here tonight unbelievers whether existing in soul alone, or as it appears from Revelation 20, resurrected body and soul, will still willingly, and everlastingly reject God, and thus everlasting punishment would not be unjust. They had lived their lives apart from God, and the only reason they had experienced before their initial death, any peace and happiness at all was because God withheld his judgment in grace. Once the grace is removed and judgment proceeds, in my view hell is just punishment and an allowance by God of human beings to oppose God and live. God is a sense is lovingly allowing his creatures to freely, to some degree live apart from his rule forever, although they are being punished simultaneously. Fourthly, he shares Pinnock's concern that evil will not really be ultimately defeated if hell exists in some form. I think that annihilationism is philosophically reasonable, and Biblically possible, although the argument from Scripture for everlasting punishment seems stronger. As well, if annihilationism is true, and a non-believer does not face God after death, there seems to be a lack of justice. The sinner never is really faced with the trueness of his/her sin, and the foolishness of rejecting God. 

If one is annihilated after judgment facing God, one must wonder how God can make one sinner's punishment worse than another person's? Everlasting death would seemingly be equal punishment for all. Points from session and discussion: I mentioned that in philosophy and theology, infinite meant limitless and finite meant limited. My view was that only God is infinite, and that everlasting hell was finite. 

Howard stated, that in mathematics, infinite could mean without a beginning and end, or with a beginning and no end. Seemingly this was because numbers were both negative and positive in an unlimited way. I agreed with this math concept, but the theological answer to that point is that numbers were not real things. As finite beings we could grow in knowledge, but God was considered to have always existed and did not need to learn, as he was omniscient. Anything God would create, including creatures and hell would be finite and at best everlasting. 

Thanks Howard, good mathematical point, and I do have to be aware of how other disciplines use terms...Darren commented in regards to the metaphorical hell view that denied that flames and darkness could be together in a literal way as described in the Bible. He noted a scientific theory that black holes in space contained both heat and darkness. This meant that perhaps hell could have intense heat and darkness, and could be literal fire, and yet darkness as it is described in the Bible. I noted that it would take a different, supernatural type of fire to harm non-physical souls, or if unbelievers have bodies as Revelation 20 may indicate, resurrected bodies that may or may not be imperishable as the bodies of the saints will be. Thanks for the music, Darren.

CROCKET, WILLIAM (1992) Four Views On Hell, William Crocket (ed.),Grand Rapids, Zondervan Publishing House.

18 comments:

  1. I will try and do another lecture study ASAP, but I have some health issues to deal with presently, and a PhD of course.

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  2. I cleaned up the notes a bit, but the work was lecture notes, and not a dissertation chapter.:).

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  3. Nice blog, Mr. Kingpin! As a Catholic, I have enjoyed perusing it and learning so much. However, I must tell you a bit more about Purgatory...Stuff that what's his name left out....

    I think we would agree that nothing impure, nothing unholy can enter Heaven. Heaven is totally stainless; sinless. We also agree that no man is completely sinless...in fact, we both know that every man is born with original sin (even though we do not share the belief that the sanctifying grace received through baptism removes original sin) Thus, no man would enter Heaven unless he was first purified in some way. That purification we call Purgatory.

    Now, in many descriptions of Purgatory it is implied that it is not only a place, but that persons spend much time there, etc. Now, first of all, outside of life in this world, there is no time. Thus, it would be impossible for us to really comprehend the "time" that one would spend in Purgatory. Who knows what it is compared to our lives. Could be half a blink, could be ages. Nonetheless, we simply have named the purification of the human soul that takes place after death Purgatory.

    But anyway, to show some Biblical basis for the existence of Purgatory, I give you these:

    Revelation 21:27
    Matthew 5:26
    James 3:2
    1 Peter 3:18-20, 4:6
    2 Timothy 1:16-18
    2 Samuel 12: 13-14
    1 Corinthians 15:29-30

    And there's more where that came from :)
    The verses, I assume, are pretty self explanatory. Do not forget to read them in context and please feel free to ask me any "Catholic" questions you might have.

    Peace, Kingpin!

    ~OraProNobis

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  4. Thanks so much for the comments. Your blogs are very artistic. I shall respectfully answer you:).

    Concerning the purification of sins, I agree with Erickson when he states that we are all corrupted in original sin and have a corrupted nature. However, for believers the imputation of Christ’s righteousness takes place through his atoning work. Erickson (1994: 639). The purification process for believers will culminate in the resurrection. Hebrews 1:3 states that when Christ made purification of sins he sat down at the right hand of the Father. The New American Standard Version Bible (1984: 1361).

    The assumption that there is no time in the resting place for souls is plausible but debatable. Thiessen points out that the resting place for souls, Hades, had two compartments. Thiessen (1956: 489). The one for the righteous was Paradise, and Hades/Hell was for the wicked, and is mentioned in Luke 16:19:30. Here the rich man is seen in conscious torment. If this verse is taken as an actual event, which some debate, then the rich man seemingly experiences suffering over a long period of time awaiting judgment and eventually being cast into the lake of fire.

    Revelation 21:27

    In context, this verse is mentioning that no unclean thing shall enter the holy city, the new Jerusalem. Robert Mounce states this verse is making it known that the wicked and defiant that are not in the Lamb’s book of life shall not enter the holy city. Mounce (1990: 385).

    Matthew 5:26

    This appears to be in the context of a person owing money being delivered to the judge and going to prison. Verse 22 mentions a person guilty enough to go to a fiery hell, or Gehenna. The idea expressed here could be that if a person does not pay a debt they will ultimately be worthy of hell. Ellison states that by the second century this verse was considered to mean some sort of purgatory, but that the New Testament context does not allow that idea. Ellison (1986: 1124).

    James 3:2

    Since a man is not perfect, a believer is reliant upon the atoning work of Christ and the righteousness of God through faith in Christ as in Romans 3:22. The New American Standard Version Bible (1984: 1273).

    1 Peter 3:18-20, 4:6

    As mentioned earlier many think there exists Hades which includes Hades/Hell, and Paradise. These are thought to be the resting place of souls prior to the resurrection. There is a debate on who Christ is preaching to here. I have read theories that Christ could be preaching to those in Hades/Hell or Paradise. G.J. Polkinghorne suggests that fallen angels are being preached to. Polkinghorne (1986: 1559). I therefore think we must interpret these verses cautiously.

    2 Timothy 1:16-18

    Does not seem relevant to me.:)

    2 Samuel 12: 13-14

    This is a judgment against David, and a mention of the upcoming death of his child.

    1 Corinthians 15:29-30

    Baptism for the dead was not a New Testament doctrine, but Paul acknowledged that some practiced it. Walter Martin has mentioned this many times in his critique of the Latter-Day Saints notion of baptism for the dead. However, even if for arguments sake we accept baptism for the dead was practiced by some Christians it does not mean that it was for those in Purgatory or for the purpose of regeneration.

    Hebrews 9:27 states that it is appointed for a man to die once and then judgment. The New American Standard Version Bible (1986: 1369). I think that this would make baptism for the dead unnecessary, and this is why we see baptism in the New Testament being for those who are alive in Christ.

    Thanks for the work out and the opportunity for me to learn more.

    In Christ,

    Russ;)


    ELLISON, H.L. (1986) ‘Matthew’, in F.F. Bruce (ed.), The International Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Zondervan.

    ERICKSON, M. (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.

    MOUNCE, R.H. (1990) The Book of Revelation, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing
    Company.

    POLINGHORNE, G.J.. (1986) ‘1 Peter’, in F.F. Bruce (ed.), The International Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Zondervan.

    THE NEW AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION BIBLE (1984), Iowa Falls, Iowa, World Bible Publishers.

    THIESSEN, Henry C. (1956) Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

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  5. as in 2nd Thessalonians. 1:9 and Gelatins 6:8"

    I know its a typo, but I cracked up. I'm thinking the book of Jello.

    Sorry...

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  6. Thanks for the comment. I am away in Florida for medical treatment, but I am trying to keep up with email. That spelling is so bad that my guess is that it was caused by Blogger's email checker back when I used it.

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  7. Russ Im thankful you gave the link to this post. I was surprised that even if our faith is different, still there are so many striking similarities in the views of hell in the Catholic church and your church. I guess hell, heaven and purgatory is something that all Christians agree in unison.

    I apologize for my seldom visiting here coz my exam isdue on the 26th and I'm really preparing for it. Pray for Us though who will take the exam. God Bless Bro.

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  8. Thanks much for commenting via your hell article which I commented on, Army.

    As Protestants and Catholics, at least conservative ones, we can agree on heaven and hell, but sadly not purgatory.:) But, as you stated our faiths (theology) are similar in many ways. I view the departed in Christ in spirit as going to Paradise (Luke 16, Luke 23: 43) and eventually the culminated Kingdom of God in resurrected form (Revelation 20-22). Paradise contains persons saved by Christ that are awaiting the resurrection. At death, those separate from Christ in spirit go to Hades (Luke 16, Revelation 20) and then eventually in resurrection form, the lake of fire (Revelation 20).

    Thanks again, the mutual support is good, Army. I try and remember you in prayers my friend, and I have remembered the exam.

    Russ:)

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  9. dear Russ, this is just a quickie, I have watched the Golden Compass because of the controversy brewing around it. and I say this movie is really disturbing. Not because it is anticatholic but because it is anti christian in nature, promoting atheism. I just want ask if you could post your thoughts about this movie. I'm planning to make a commentary about this after my exam but I want also to know the stand of other christians about this movie. I hope you can share to us your ideas about this and of course your view on this matter (that is if you are not busy my friend).

    I don't want to sound self - righteous and you are the only christian (aside from my catholic friends) that is very vocal with this things that's why I also want to extract wisdom from you. our era's battle is not about christians against christians but a battle between christians and those who deny the existence of God. I would like to ask for your wisdom about this.

    have a very merry xmas my friend.

    Pax et Bonum.

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  10. Thanks, Army.

    I have heard of the film within the last couple of weeks from scanning texts from Albert Mohler and Professor Howdy, and by speaking with my friend Chucky, but I do not know much about it and have not read the book or seen the movie. I did not listen to this particular program below, but here is a link from Albert Mohler.

    Golden Compass

    I will ask Chucky, if he wishes to comment, Army. Cheers:)

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  11. From articles I've read about Pullman and his "His Dark Materials" trilogy, it seems Pullman is deliberately wishing to indoctrinate children with atheism.
    A Christian friend and movie reviewer, Peter Chattaway, had a very interesting editorial/review of this movie in the latest BC Christian News.
    The basic message is that this first movie, "The Golden Compass", is entertaining, creative and suspenseful, and does tend to tone down the atheistic elements from the book; however if it is successful enough that the sequels are made into movies, those would be more problematic in that the atheistic elements are more central to those books.
    My approach would be: give your money to Blockbusters instead of to the studio, if you want to see it (or borrow the DVD from your library). Of course there are still other methods which I won't advocate here...

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  12. Thanks, Chuck.

    Army, I listened to Mohler via the link this morning and it was informative.

    I posted a link to this article on Facebook today and placed a link within my latest on this blog.

    Cheers!

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  13. Nice comparison on the various views of Hell.

    Regarding Annihilationism, Jesus said that Hell is a place where their worm will never die, and the fire will not be quenched.

    Regarding Hell being a place of both fire AND darkness:

    "But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)

    Although I agree with you that the fire of Hell must be of some spiritual quality in order to affect eternal souls that are made up of spirit and not mass, I can only comment on the physical attributes.

    Brimstone, or sulphur, produces sulphur dioxide when burned, which is the chemical compound with the formula SO2. SO2 is produced by volcanoes and in various industrial processes. Since coal and petroleum often contain sulfur compounds, their combustion generates sulfur dioxide. Further oxidation of SO2, usually in the presence of a catalyst such as NO2, forms H2SO4, and thus acid rain. Sulfur dioxide is toxic in large amounts. Sulfur dioxide blocks nerve signals from the pulmonary stretch receptors (PSR's) and abolishes the Hering-Breuer inflation reflex. Sulfur dioxide acts as an acid. Inhalation results in labored breathing, coughing, and/or a sore throat and may cause permanent pulmonary damage. When it makes contact with eyes, redness and pain will occur. Sulfur dioxide is a pollutant, and burns with a dark smoke. Because of this, Hell can have flames and be dark at the same time.

    Regarding Purgatory, I found the following on one website:

    "The doctrine of Purgatory evolved from an ancient teaching prevalent among the people of India and Persia, who believed in the concept of a purification by fire after death.

    This teaching was also prominent amongst the Egyptians, as well as the Greeks and Romans. The Greeks’ influence reached as far as Palestine, where gradually the Rabbis began to teach that sin offerings made by children could relieve their deceased parents of great suffering.

    Even the ancient philosopher Plato (427-347 B.C.), accepted the concept that a perfect happiness was unattainable after one’s death until one had atoned for one’s sins through suffering the pains of a purifying fire. Such teaching does away with any thought of an atoning death of a Savior for His people."

    "Devotees of Zoroastrianism, a pagan religion which can be traced as far back as 3,000 B.C., did not believe in an eternal hell, but in a temporary place of suffering for the purposes of correction. It was taught that these souls proceeded through twelve different stages of punishment before being sufficiently purified to enter heaven.

    The Stoics, believers in an ancient form of Greek philosophy, held the idea of a ‘middle place’ of enlightenment which they named ‘Empurosis’, meaning ‘a place of fire’."

    "Oddly, in light of Roman Catholicism’s insistence that Purgatory is a biblical teaching, the whole concept of temporal punishment for the purposes of purification was not introduced into the Roman Catholic Church until the end of the 6th century, when Pope Gregory the Great proclaimed that as well as heaven and hell, there existed a third state, a place where souls could be purified before being admitted into heaven. Even more peculiar is the fact that this papal ruling was not sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church as official dogma until the Council of Florence in 1439 and was later confirmed by the Council of Trent in 1548."

    "It is reported that the theologian St. Augustine once positively stated that nobody was obliged to believe in Purgatory. Charles Chiniquy, former Roman Catholic priest and author of the revealing book 50 Years in the ‘Church’ of Rome, has commented, "Several of the fathers consider purgatory as of pagan origin. Tertullian spoke of it only after he had joined the sect of the Montanists (a heretical cult of the 2nd century), and he confesses that it is not through the Holy Scriptures, but through the inspiration of the Paraclete of Montanus that he knows anything about purgatory. Augustine, the most learned and pious of the holy fathers, does not find purgatory in the Bible, and positively says that its existence is dubious."

    In his assessment of the doctrine of Purgatory and its effects on the Roman Catholic, Dr. Laird R. Harris states: "It is well to remember that the doctrine of Purgatory which rests like a heavy burden upon the heart of every Roman Catholic was not taught by any of the early church fathers and had a very slow growth until the fifth century. Its beginnings in prayers for the dead and a difference in status between the martyred dead and the ordinary Christian departed may be found as early as 200 A.D. in the writings of Tertullian. Mention of the penal fires comes much later, and the masses for the poor souls in purgatory still later. The doctrine of Purgatory is another one of those foreign growths that has fastened itself like a malignant tumor upon the theology of the Roman Catholic Church."

    The above quotes regarding Purgatory are from:
    http://www.godsonlygospel.com/Purgatory2.htm

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  14. Thanks very much, Jeff. I tentatively reason that those persons in the lake of fire will have resurrected bodies (Revelation 20: 5, 15), but this point has been debated by scholars.

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  15. Hmmmm...resurrected bodies that are somehow vulnerable to whatever type of fire is in Hell? Interesting thought. I always thought that only believers will have resurrected bodies, and the lost will only be spirits, but I'm not sure.

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  16. There is also a debate on whether the fire is literal...

    Needless to state, the lake of fire is a place of everlasting punishment.

    How many persons will ever read these comments? They are stuck deep in thekingpin68 archives...lol.

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  17. Clark H. Pinnock states that the traditional orthodox view of God torturing people forever is very disturbing and needs reconsideration.

    Well, there you go.

    Find a particular doctrine disturbing? No problem. The doctrine just needs reconsideration..

    Find the cross offensive?

    Pinnock is a knucklehead.

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  18. I met Dr. Pinnock in 2001 at Ivy Cottage Church in Manchester. He had serious eye problems that were quite a bit worse than mine it looked like.

    Personally I found him very nice and supportive, and have emailed with him a couple of times over the years.

    However, I disagree with his views on hell and with his views concerning compatibilism/Reformed theology which I have documented in my PhD.

    Cheers, Stan.

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