According to W.R.F. Browning, the term parousia in the Greek New Testament means presence. It is used in the context of the Second Coming of Christ within the eschatological framework which includes judgment and resurrection. Browning (1996: 282).
Browning reasons that Paul expected the day of the Lord, not as the end of the world and of time, but rather for the judgment of humanity and the final defeat of evil. The resurrection of Jesus would lead to the resurrection of all followers and a renewed creation. Browning (1996: 283).
Millard Erickson writes that parousia literally means ‘being by’ and presence, coming or arrival. He notes it is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 to designate the coming of Christ as he raises those in him from the dead and catches believers in the air with him. This coming will lead to the destruction of the antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:8. It will not be a secret event, but will be public. Erickson (1996: 993).
Strong defines the root word παρουσία from 1 Thessalonians 4: 15 as being near, advent, coming, and presence. Strong (1986: 74).
Word Detail
Word/Inflected Form Lemma Part of Speech Lexical Entry
παρουσίαν (6) παρουσία (28)
Noun coming, arrival, presence
Parsing Accusative Singular Feminine
Related Words ἔλευσις ἔναντι ἀπέναντι ὕπαρξις νυνί ἐνοικέω γέρας εὐκαιρία ἔγκτησις ἔνδοθεν πατάσσω
Context in 1 Thessalonians 4:15 οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν ... τοῦ κυρίου οὐ μὴ
“From Merriam-Webster: Accusative (In many languages including NT Koine Greek)
1 : of, relating to, or being the grammatical case that marks the direct object of a verb or the object of any of several prepositions”
1 Thessalonians 4: 15
…and remain (verb) until the coming (accusative noun) of the Lord.
Bauer writes that in the context of 1 Thessalonians 4: 15 the word παρουσίαν is used of Christ and the Messianic Advent in glory to judge this world at the end of the age. Bauer (1979: 630).
Eschatology is derived from the Greek word eschaton meaning last, it refers to the ultimate culmination of history where Jesus Christ returns to earth and fully establishes his rule and Kingdom. Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 46). Eschatology is the theology that seeks to fully understand the direction and purpose of history and progressing events. Grenz, Guretzki, and Nordling (1999: 46).
Henry C. Thiessen writes that eschatology includes the concepts of the Second Coming of Christ, the resurrection, judgments, the millennium, and the final state. Thiessen (1956: 440).
These are far too complex concepts to thoroughly discuss within a blog article, but these ideals would all be aspects of how the Biblical God delivers this current age that exists with the problem of evil, into an age where evil is a thing of the past. This present fallen creation, inhabited and influenced by sinful creatures would be transformed into a universe and earth empirically ruled by Christ as God.
It should be noted here that The Kingdom of Heaven/God will therefore not only include access to God in the heavenly non-physical spiritual realm, but also a physical creation restored to an original perfection ruled by God. The elect in Christ will be physically resurrected and not live everlastingly as spiritual beings alone, because God wants the those in Christ to live forever in the restored Kingdom described in Revelation, Chapters 21-22.
Robert H. Mounce points out that contrary to Greek dualism, God always intended for human beings to exist on a redeemed earth, not in a heavenly realm removed from physical existence. Mounce (1990: 368). This makes sense as a physical resurrected body naturally requires a physical realm to exist in, but Paul calls the resurrected body, spiritual, in 1 Corinthians 15: 44.
Gordon Fee explains that the resurrection body is not immaterial but supernatural. It is a body adapted for eschatological existence under the domination of the spirit. Fee (1987: 786). Mounce notes that the concepts of new heaven and new earth in Revelation are described with varying degrees of literalness, but the new heaven and new earth provides the setting for the new and everlasting state. Mounce (1999: 369). The new heaven and new earth is not simply metaphor for a spiritual existence with God in his heavenly presence, but an actual physical place where human beings shall live and prosper with Christ. If Christians were intended to live merely a spiritual existence with God in the heavenly realm this would make the resurrection of the natural body, which becomes a spiritual body, as Paul describes it, unnecessary. If God did not intend to restore the physical universe and human body, then saved human beings, after death, could simply remain in Paradise (Luke 23: 43, 2 Corinthians 12: 4) in spirit form only.
BAUER, W. (1979) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Translated by Eric H. Wahlstrom, Chicago, The University of Chicago Press.
BROWNING, W.R.F. (1997) Oxford Dictionary of the Bible Oxford, Oxford University Press.
ERICKSON, MILLARD J. (1996) ‘Second Coming of Christ’, in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.
FEE, GORDON (1987) The First Epistle to the Corinthians, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
GRENZ, STANLEY J. DAVID GURETZKI and CHERITH FEE NORDLING (1999) Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms, Downers Grove, Ill., InterVarsity Press.
MOUNCE, ROBERT H. (1990) The Book of Revelation, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
STRONG, J. (1986) Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Pickering, Ontario, Welch Publishing Company.
THIESSEN, HENRY C. (1956) Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
An unusual sight greeted Jerusalem police as they entered one of Christianity's holiest sites Sunday morning: dozens of monks punching and kicking each other in a massive brawl.
Hey, was this all over a blog article?
Parousia being an immenent coming; check. Christ second coming but there will remain a physical Earth. Understood, this is just the first time I have heard anyone outside of the Jehovah's Witnesses say this.
ReplyDeleteAnd with that, the cartoon matches the genre.
Difficult to swallow. I promise I will look your text over a little closer. I need to understand this.
Thanks, Jim.
ReplyDeleteAs you know, I am certainly no Jehovah's Witness or anything remotely associated!;) LOL.
This is Biblical Christian doctrine which I have heard and/or read about from my church and denomination, The Christian Research Institute, some Dispensationalists, Thiessen, Erickson and more importantly Revelation scholar Robert Mounce. There have been others as well that are not cultists.:)
The misunderstanding of this doctrine and teaching of heaven as simply a spiritual state is one of the great wrongs within some evangelical/fundamentalist thinking.
It is not emphasized enough and no wonder so many Christians have reservations about heaven. Physical nature and the related physical realm is natural to us.
Even if new heaven and new earth is not plain literal, and I do not think it is, it is figurative literal, it is discussing a restored physical creation and not simply a spiritual presence with Christ and the triune God.
Reading through Erickson from his text 'Christian Theology' he admits that heaven is both a locale and a place, but it is primarily a state. (p. 1232). He notes the fact we will have access to God in the spiritual realm and that will be heaven, but as he admits we are physical with a new earth. I reason it is obvious that the restored creation would certainly be an aspect of the Kingdom of God/Heaven. I would emphasize it more than he does.
Most likely believers that die are already in a plain literal spiritual Paradise (Luke 23: 43, 2 Corinthians 12: 4) and so the addition of their physical bodies at the resurrection only makes sense in order to rule with Christ in the physical realm.
Thiessen notes that creation will not be annihilated and that matter will continue forever. New means restored. (p.516.)
The Kingdom of God/Heaven has both a spiritual and physical aspect.
ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.
THIESSEN, HENRY C. (1956) Introductory Lectures in Systematic Theology, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
Hi Russ,
ReplyDeleteI think you can see by the visits vs. comments that a lot of people truly do not hear this teaching.
I understand what you are saying. Thanks for taking the time to break it down for me. This certainly is not the first time I would not have heard doctrine rarely taught. But, you are right, the church does tend to brush by certain doctrine.
Thanks again, Russ.
I will be doing a study on this soon. You have given me a good begining here.
Jim
Thanks, Jim.
ReplyDeleteI still figure this post should receive the typical amount of comments. The Blogger post date is misleading as it started counting when I began typing and editing the document, and not when it was actually published.
I appreciate your open mind to a view which most reasonable Christian scholars will state is at least basically Biblical.
God bless, Jim.
Russ:)
I'm thinking of using the line in that first cartoon as a reply to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the next time they come to my door!
ReplyDeleteAt church this morning it was announced that a guy I know from my old church in Maple Ridge that works for Campus Crusade for Christ, opened a package at his residence and it was a package bomb. He is apparently in serious condition, in an out of consciousness.
ReplyDeleteRuss
CTV
Bomb blast rocks Langley townhouse
Updated: Sat Nov. 08 2008 18:45:26
ctvbc.ca
Some residents are still out of their homes after an explosion rocked a Langley, B.C. townhouse complex Saturday morning.
Witnesses say the man who lives in the townhouse in the 8900-block of 208 Street was seriously hurt when the package he picked up on his doorstep exploded.
"Oh it was a big noise, really loud, shook the area," a neighbour tells CTV News.
Emergency crews, including the bomb unit, evacuated the area and blocked the road just in case someone had planted more than one bomb.
Const. Holly Marks of the Langley RCMP says area residents are safe. "Anything can be done is being done," she says.
By mid-afternoon, most residents were allowed home but others still had to stay away.
The 39-year-old from the townhouse was taken to hospital and is expected to survive.
Neighbours says the man had recently moved in, and was already moving out. A partially packed moving truck was seen in the driveway Saturday.
Four other adults were in the suite at the time of the explosion, but police say even with their statements, they don't have much to go on.
The victim has no criminal record, and police have no motive.
With a report from CTV British Columbia's Renu Bakshi
Calgary Herald
Present on doorstep turns out to be bomb
By Cheryl Chan, Vancouver Province
Published: Sunday, November 09, 2008
LANGLEY - A 39-year-old man is in hospital after an explosion ripped through a townhouse unit in Langley Saturday morning.
Neighbour Nancy Curtis was in her living room at about 11:30 a.m. when she heard a loud bang and felt her unit shake in the 8900-block of 208th Street.
"There was a compression. I could feel it in my body and it rattled the things in my glass cases," she said.
Police and fire personnel investigate outside a townhouse complex in the 8900-block of 208th Street in Langley on Saturday afternoon, after a package left on a man's doorstep blew up.
Shane McKichan - for The Province
She looked out and saw a woman in the unit behind hers run out screaming for help.
Langley RCMP has not determined the official cause of the blast, but witnesses said the bomb was left at the man's doorstep as a harmless-looking, nicely-packaged present. The man, who was in the process of moving, then brought it into the townhouse, where it blew up.
He sustained serious but non-life-threatening injuries, said Langley RCMP.
Police are investigating the case as a possible targeted attack. The motive is still unknown.
The road leading to the apartment complex was blocked and several units were evacuated for about two hours as dog teams and the RCMP bomb squad secured the area to make sure there were no additional explosives.
Wow, Russ!
ReplyDeleteAnd so it continues...
"God always intended for human beings to exist on a redeemed earth, not in a heavenly realm removed from physical existence."
ReplyDeleteI agree with this; and you're right, Russ...mainstream Christianity is not well-informed in this area. Too many Christians only think of "heaven" as a spiritual existence and that this world will be utterly destroyed. Not true.
Christ's redemption takes the entire Cosmos into its grasp. We diminish the work of Christ when we think of it only in personal, human terms. Our personal salvation is one aspect of a greater work: the redemption of Creation.
Larry Norman, who I love, had written a song containing the line "This world is not my home...I'm just passing through". Sadly, this is the mindset of Christianity today. But we were made of and for this world. At the Parousia, when we are changed into our "heavenly" bodies, the cosmos will also be restored in its created destiny to host our eternity with God! Redemption is Cosmic!
I've written on this in many of my early posts (I don't have the time to find them and link them here) and am currently reading a great book that speaks directly to this issue: Heaven is a place on Earth: Why Everything You Do Matters To God, by Michael E. Wittmer. I've also read material by Cornelius Plantinga, Jr. that sheds light on the redemption of the earth as our eternal abode. N.T. Wright, who I don't always agree with, has also written a good summation of this idea in his book, The New Testament and the People of God. Richard J. Mouw, Nicholas Wolterstorff (who you may be familiar with in the discipline of philosophy), Calvin B. DeWitt and Fred Van Dyke have all written very good books on the Biblical concept of the redeemed earth being our heavenly home and our need to treat it with the respect that it deserves as God's good creation for us (not to be confused with liberal "environmentalism", but we are still God's image-bearers who have been given the mandate to care for this earth and all it contains because it is now and forever will be our home).
Eschatology does not only refer to the "end times", but is really the propulsion that moves redemptive history forward since the beginning of "time". Eschatology in its fullest sense speaks to the goal and purpose of God such that the underlying movement of the entire Scripture is eschatological. We've spoken before about this, so I won't pursue it here. But my friend Chad Bresson at "The Vossed World" (on my sidebar) has written much material about eschatology. I encourage everyone who is interested in the flow of redemptive history (the movement of the Scripture) to check out his articles.
I wish I knew how to do "links" so that I can easily direct interested people to specific pages and articles. Greg...you showed me how to do italics and bold, how about showing me how to do "links"! :-)
Good and thought-provoking article Russ--Thanks!
GGM
"COMMENTS ON THIS STORY
ReplyDeletehere we go again....
Sun, Nov 9, 08 at 02:18 PM
real nice neighbour, great guy, no enemies...LOL It is not everyday you get a home made bomb left on your door step....just for you buddy. Speedy recovery so you can explain to the cops what you do for a living.....LOL Should of just blew your stupid head off so that there would not be a second attempt to kill you and maybe hurt some innocent people...."
Does that person know that the victim is an employee of Campus Crusade for Christ? And is that what he means by "what you do for a living"?? Is the person who left that comment maybe a radical extremist Muslim? Wow...
Oh...I forgot to mention. Today in church, our pastor gave what I think is the single best on-off sermon on the purpose and role of the Law of Moses. Since our preacher preaches for an hour or longer, the audio will require a person to pay attention for an extended period of time...something that is very difficult for most people in this MTV generation with such short attention spans; but I think your readers are the cream of the crop and can engage themselves for an hour of interesting and (dare I say?) stimulating listening.
ReplyDeleteThe audio and PDF files won't be up for a couple of days, but this is another in our Sermon on the Mount series (a summation of Jesus' treatment of the Law--from my latest "Sermon" post); so it will look like the rest.
Anyway, just keep an eye out for it and try to give yourself some time to listen to the sermon on SermonAudio--it is very thought-provoking. I've been laboring trying to convey the Biblical principle of Jesus as the true Israel; and while this concept could take quite a few sermons and a rather large book to do it justice, this sermon, I believe, is a dynamite summarization of this principle.
Sorry about intruding on this post about the "Parousia and Eschatology"; I just wanted to give you a "heads up" to check in with me in a couple of days.
Take it easy!
BTW--This Mac is grrrrrrreat!! (And it will be even better once I learn it!!) :-)
"EML
ReplyDeleteSun, Nov 9, 08 at 04:25 PM
Amazes me how people are getting stupider rather that more intelligent. To the person who planted the device do you not know how to think? Do you not realize that others could have been injured or worse? I've seen a sack of hammers that was brighter than you!"
So in other words, "If you're going to kill someone, be professional about it and do it the right way!" Is the commenter speaking from experience? It almost sounds like a professional criticizing an amateur. Or else the mindset of someone who is used to playing many murderous video games where you assassinate people or something. Yeah, forget the fact that he tried to kill someone; more important is the fact that he could have hurt others in the process. Sheesh! Crazy!
Thanks, Jason.
ReplyDeleteYou make very good points.
I do not deny that with our resurrected bodies, we in Christ shall have spiritual access to God/Christ in Paradise, in other words the spiritual non-material realm where our spirits experience God after death awaiting the resurrection. I doubt we will have to give this very good thing up and it is of course a brilliant place/experience. But I see our primary purpose as being filled with the Holy Spirit and guided by God to rule the earth and physical creation in our spiritual bodies as Paul calls them in First Corinthians 15: 44. We can be inter-dimensional beings, I see the material universe as our primary home.
And so there will be plant life and even some animals. I suppose we could have our loved pets resurrected.
This all makes so much Biblical sense, all evidence considered.
Russ
Does that person know that the victim is an employee of Campus Crusade for Christ? And is that what he means by "what you do for a living"?? Is the person who left that comment maybe a radical extremist Muslim? Wow...
ReplyDeleteOur church received inside information that was not within the web stories.
He is in and out of consciousness, but it will be difficult to find the bomber (s) I suppose.
Cheers, Jeff.
Yes, good points Jeff. Some people in our society really lack a depth of sympathy it appears.
ReplyDeleteRuss:)
Our church received inside information that was not within the web stories.
ReplyDeleteCan you reveal his name so we can pray for him?
I am not certain that I should, but prayer is a good idea.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Jeff.
An email and Facebook friend of mine in the Philippines said, regarding that bomb:
ReplyDelete"My answer to such kind of explosive power is another kind of explosive power: love."
Cheers Jeff, I agree.
ReplyDeleteLove...and justice.
I'm so sorry that this horrific event happened to a nice person like this. How can anyone build a bomb with the intention of killing someone???? This is sick. I hope the police find this person or people and put them in prison!
ReplyDeleteWalter Thomas Franklin
It is terrible, and I appreciate our prayers tonight for him.
ReplyDeleteMy hope is that this is not a part of a new campaign of terror against Christian leaders in the Lower Mainland.
Russ
Province
ReplyDeleteGift-wrapped bomb left on doorstep
Missionary, 39, seriously injured when pink package explodes inside home
Cheryl Chan, The Province
Published: Monday, November 10, 2008
A Langley missionary was in hospital under police guard last night after a gift-wrapped bomb left on his doorstep exploded.
Gary Stevenson, a 39-year-old father of two, was in the process of moving out of his Walnut Grove townhouse in the 8900-block 208th Street on Saturday when he found the pink gift bag on his front doorstep.
Thinking it was a gift for his daughters, aged one and three, he brought it into the house, where it blew up.
"What's really terrifying is who would put a bomb in a gift bag that was in pink," Miles Forrest, a friend of the Stevensons, said yesterday.
"Was somebody trying to kill his daughters? He was going to give it to them but . . . luckily, in a way, he opened it ahead of time."
Because Stevenson and his wife Lynda were moving, Lynda's mom Sylvia had three-year-old Maiya and one-year-old Anneke with her when the explosion occurred.
Stevenson sustained severe cuts to his head and chest and underwent surgery Saturday night to remove shrapnel from his liver. He is expected to survive.
News of the attack came as a shock to family and friends of the young couple, who both work at Campus for Christ at Simon Fraser University.
"A lot of people admire Gary," said Forrest. "He's a really soft-spoken guy and he's very passionate about his faith. We're all stunned. Who on Earth would put that in there?"
Sylvia said her family is also baffled.
"I can see it if Gary had gang connections or if he was involved in drugs, but it's nothing of that sort," she said.
Langley RCMP said Stevenson does not have a record. The motive for the bombing is unknown.
Because they do not know if the attack was targeted or random, Sylvia and her husband John did not want their last names published.
"We would expect this to happen in Afghanistan, not in Canada," said John.
Lynda and three other people helping them move were in the house when the bomb went off at 11:30 a.m. They were not injured.
Neighbouring units were evacuated for several hours as dog teams and the RCMP bomb squad searched the area.
A next-door neighbour who did not want to be identified described the Stevensons as a "wonderful little family."
"He almost always has one of the girls in his arms," she said.
"They're very close, always doing things together."
Stevenson, who attends Christian Life Assembly in Langley, is a committed and dedicated youth pastor, said Guy Saffold, executive director of ministries at Campus for Christ.
This summer, he led 25 students on an outreach mission in North Africa.
"We don't know if it might be for retribution for being involved in missions work," said Forrest.
"I have a hard time believing anyone would target him."
The alternative, however, is even scarier: "It means there's some sicko at that complex leaving packages at people's houses," he said.
Call Langley RCMP at 604-532-3200 if you can help.
Good stuff, Russ. As a bunch of your commenters here have said, it is so important to bring out this point, if not for anything else than simply for this:
ReplyDeleteIf we deny the physical restoration of creation, we allow sin to have eternal dominion over that. And, if sin is maintains its hold on even one minute part, then the sovereignty of God and the Lordship of Jesus Christ over all is compromised. This cannot be.
I addressed this topic back in September on my blog. Redemption is holistic and total, as is God's sovereignty. The two go hand in hand.
This means that, for example, Jesus' acts of healing the man born blind, raising Lazarus from the dead, and healing the woman afflicted by continuous bleeding, are to be understood as a foreshadowing and a foretaste of the restoration that is to come when the Kingdom of God arrives in fullness at the second coming of Christ.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the comments from your blog and appreciate the comments here.
It is shame these concepts have been misunderstood by many within the Church.
Cheers, Jake.
Russ
Thanks, Jeff.
ReplyDeleteTime will tell if a connection can be made between Islamic terrorists and the Langley bombing.
If it is the case, local Christian leaders will need to be careful. I am not stating they should back down with their message, but that they should be careful concerning security.
Russ,
ReplyDeleteI just wanted you to know that Patricia Hickman emailed me today and said to tell everyone she is out of town and will try serious blogging when she returns. Don't write her off yet.
Jim
LOL.
ReplyDeleteThat picture of the monks going crazy, you should re-word it and have it say, that is a bunch of mormons attacking Rick b and the leader of the group is Wes the mormon hater. and invite Wes to review the photo, LOL, rick b.
ReplyDeleteor better yet forward the photo to me and for fun I will do it on my blog. I figure wes posts a photo of me and my wife on his blog, then calls me a flammin homo. rick b
No, don't lol. She really did email me. Serious. I know it is difficult to believe. But, she did.
ReplyDeleteRick, I will admit, I had considered putting in a statement that asked if Rick B, or Jeff was somehow involved.:)
ReplyDeleteI am a saint of course.;)
Jim, what was so funny to me was that you would post her name in that context on my blog.:)
ReplyDeleteRuss
I had considered putting in a statement that asked if Rick B, or Jeff was somehow involved.:)
ReplyDeleteI was involved! I went to the Greek Orthodox monks and whispered to them that the Armenians said they could kick their butts in football; then I went to the Armenians and told them the Greek Orthodox monks said they could kick the Armenian's butts in football! That's how it all started!
Good thinking, Jeff!
ReplyDeleteFight in Church
ReplyDeleteYes, a Reverend strikes a woman and throws water at her...classy.
ReplyDeleteI have seen that clip before. Thanks, Jeff.
Hi Russ,
ReplyDeletespeaking of the Parousia of Christ, I thought I would send along a letter that was written the day after the U.S. Presidential election. This letter appears on the NEIN Blog in the comments of his Nov. 9 post. The discussion is about the viability of Obama's election and will it be nolified by his not being a U.S. Citizen.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Prophecy
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2008 00:46:57 -0600
Dear friends in Christ,
Before I start, let me make this statement ... I'm just a messenger, nothing more, nothing less.
Many of you asked in the past year or so who might be elected the next president, based on the Seven Signs that Jesus gave me in my heaven experience. And I answered that Obama's campaign seemed to match many of the issues that Jesus promised in this next candidate. I would have liked to shared this prophecy back then, but I did not want it to look like a political advertisement. So I chose to write about this AFTER the election.
I can also tell you that this presidential election based on my heaven experience is prophecy being fulfilled. We're just one more milestone closer to the rapture.
Just remember...except for local elections, last Tuesday's election was the LAST presidential election we will ever experience before the rapture. There will be no more! Isn't that exciting?
Here is what's yet to happen.
1. Coming in January (inaugeration) ... Due to a "problem", Obama will NOT be sworn in as the next president. He will never take that office. Why? I don't know. This is the missing piece to the puzzle. We must wait in anticipation to see whatever this "problem" might be.
2. Bush will be forced to extend his presidential term until this "problem" can be resolved. Remember, Jesus told me, "The president you know right now (meaning Bush) will be the last president you will know at the time of the rapture."
3. Violence will erupt within our nation due to this "problem". What might this be? Rioting? Demonstrations? Terrorism? We will wait and see.
4. Jesus told me, "Your troops will be brought home from around the world, but this does not mean peace." Then my minister, Rev. John Rice, (in heaven) said, "When this happens, stay off the airplanes, the trains and the interstate highways. If you must cross a river, use a less traveled bridge or a ferry. When driving, use as many backroads as possible." Then Jesus told me, "Your nation will need all the help it can get to defend itself."
5. World War III will erupt. All the nations will turn against this nation, blaming Bush for this "problem", but by the time the world realizes that Bush was not to blame, it will be too late.
6. Missiles will be dropped on cities on the east coast, then the west coast, making 9/11 look very minimal.
7. Then by the time we see missiles and fighter jets flying above us in all directions right here at home and you feel like it can't get any worse than this, that's when you know the rapture is about to take place.
Our nation will lose this war badly. It will be the end of the United States. At this time the one world government and the antichrist will take over.
All these things I learned from my heaven experience. Jesus also told me, "These are all in God's plan. As horrible as these events may seem, these events must happen in order for the rapture to take place. But you must fear not, for as you see these things happen, you must realize these are merely milestones as we get closer to the rapture. Just do your works as normally as you possibly can. Then when this time comes, I will call you and everyone else on My list, in the twinkle of My eye, just that fast."
Let me finish by saying, I'm just a messenger, nothing more, nothing less.
God bless,
November 9, 2008 4:40 PM
Click here to find this letter in the comment section under the North Eastern Intelligence Network's blog.
Thanks, Jim.
ReplyDeleteI have read a bit from both sides on this issue. We shall what happens.
I'm still laughing over "I'm glad my name's not Thou"...
ReplyDeleteThank you, MM.
ReplyDeleteI am glad you liked it.:)
Wow! A letter bomb. Do you know any updated details about this Russ?
ReplyDeleteThe Parousia & Eschatology article was an interesting one. I know this is a little offside with the nub of your argument but I do have many questions from people about body states at different times in the process. It's impossible to know "exactly" what will occur. Hence I have a name for it all, the whole thing lock stock and barrel. I believe in "pan Millennialism" you know it will all "pan out" in the end.
It's interesting that over the years I have seen the Jehovah Witnesses latch onto people who are inquisitive about this whole process and often people fall for their interpretation which is very sad.
Anyway just a thought.
Catching up slowly.
Russell.
Thanks, Russell.
ReplyDeleteI barely know Gary, but joined the related Facebook page with updates. I can Facebook message you the group, but there is not much news.
The media is playing it as a random act, but time will tell. If I were a Christian leader in this area I would be more careful than previously.
Like you Russell, I have no interest in playing the speculation game as far as exact dates are concerned. I reason as we are told in Revelation 13: 7 that the beast shall overcome the saints, and I have yet to see any really good theological argument for pre-tribulation.
I will Facebook message you next.
Russ:)
Some Thoughts I Wrote on Imminency
ReplyDelete(watchforparousia.blogspot.com)
Be patient, therefore, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. Behold the farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. James 5:7,8
Believers are to be patient amidst persecution until when? Until the “coming” (parousia) of the Lord. Parousia is well known to mean "presence" and refers to His second coming many times in the New Testament.[1] Also notice that the farming analogy seems to indicate that the farmer is aware of the coming rains just as the believer might expect certain things prior to end time events.[2] For example Jesus warned "when you see these things begin to take place [end time signs in the sun, moon, and stars], straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."[3] This manner of expectancy is objected to on the grounds that it destroys the idea of Christ's rapture of the church being imminent, or able to occur at any moment. But imminent probably doesn't mean 'at any moment' in the New Testament.[4] As D.A. Carson relates: “…many New Testament passages implicitly rule out an "any second" imminency (Matthew 24:45-51, 25:5,19;Luke 19:11[5]-27;John 21:18-19...Acts 9:15…)”.[6] Carson goes on to say that imminency more likely means “a return that could take place soon…within a fairly brief period of time.”[7] At the very least, Peter and Paul probably did not believe in this kind of imminency because Peter was told by Jesus what manner of death he was to die and that it would take place many years in to the future. Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself, and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go."[8] Could Peter think the Rapture was at any moment with this enduring prediction by Jesus?[9] Also, it was told of Paul that he would bear Christ's name "before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel" and that God would "show him how much he is to suffer for My name's sake."[10] Does ‘any moment imminency’ fit with such a massive missionary plan revealed by God to Paul which took decades to complete? Jesus encouraged the first disciples and all Christians, to look for certain events which would indicate His coming was "at the doors." This and other passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:2-6, seem to indicate moral watchfulness, waiting in expectancy,[11] and sobriety ("let us keep awake and be sober"),[12] and that the wrath of that day will overtake those in darkness like a thief. But a believer is “not in darkness, that the day should overtake [him] like a thief."[13] [14] Thus, perhaps, a different concept of imminency emerges from the data, namely, one that involves a near/impending return of Christ along with the imperatives to be morally ready.
[1] MacArthur Jr., John F. The MacArthur New Testament Commentary: James. Moody Press, p. 253, 1998.
[2]Stanley N. Gundry and Gleason L. Archer Jr. Three Views on the Rapture. Zondervan, p208, 1996.
[3] Luke 21:28. Also notice the use of the 2nd person plurals ἀνακύψατε καὶ ἐπάρατε τὰς κεφαλὰς ὑμῶν in this verse in connection to “they” in 21:7. Would the disciples have thought Jesus was not speaking to them when he gave them imperatives relating to His coming but was speaking to a peculiar group only alive after a pretribulational rapture? This seems to be the most natural understanding.
[4] Stanley N. Gundry and Gleason L. Archer Jr. Three Views on the Rapture. Zondervan, p208, 1996. See :wait for” in Luke 12:36; Tit. 2:13; “look for” in Mt. 24:50; Luke 12:46, etc.
[5] Note especially Luke 19:11. It says, “As they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem, and because they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately." (NRSV). Jesus then goes on to tell that a noblemen went to a distant country and came back and settled accounts with his servants...as if He was going away for awhile thus insinuating delay, perhaps.
[6] Carson, D.A. The Expositor's Bible Commentary: Matthew, Mark, Luke. Frank E. Gaebelein ed. Regency Reference Library, volume 8, p. 490, 1984.
[7] Ibid.
[8]John 21:28.
[9]Stanley N. Gundry and Gleason L. Archer Jr. Three Views on the Rapture. Zondervan, p210, 1996.
[10] Acts 9:15,16.
[11] James 5:8.
[12] 1 Thessalonians 5:6 NRSV.
[13] 1 Thessalonians 5:4
[14] Ladd, George E. The Blessed Hope: A Biblical Study of the Second Advent and the Rapture. Wm. B Eerdmans Publishing, p.110, 1956. “The context makes it clear that the “watch” means to be spiritually awake in contrast to the world which is slumbering in the sleep of sin.” Italics in original.
Thanks for the notes, Rick T.
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