Sunday, June 03, 2012

Nicene Creed Second Lecture Notes & Dawkins/Dawson Posts


Castanar, de ibor, Spain (trekearth)

1. 1000+ pageview day satire and theology

My satire and theology blog has according to StatCounter and SiteMeter 1, 000+ pageviews today (June 3, 2012) because of many hits on the following two posts. Blogger has over 2800 pageviews listed as the amount.

Monday, May 19, 2008 Richard Dawkins versus Richard Dawson, sort of 

Monday, August 16, 2010 Richard Dawkins versus Richard Dawson, sort of (reprise)

I woke up this Sunday morning and was getting ready for church and checked my blogs as usual. I noticed many more than usual visitors on the satire blog via the Revolver Maps application. I then started examining some of the ISP addresses via StatCounter and SiteMeter and a few from a couple of locations came across as rather familiar. Perhaps a person or persons has been forwarding these posts on my behalf.

Chucky has noted in comments that Mr. Dawson has died. This is sad to read. Looking through my pageviews I think there has been a combination of searches and perhaps forwarding of my posts.


Campo, Spain (trekearth)

2. Nicene Creed Second Lecture Notes

The preparation for this lecture was only a week to as opposed to 1.5 months from God the Son section (previous post), and therefore this section will be far more simplified.


I gave this lecture more than once during the week.


And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life,

who proceeds from the Father [and the Son];

who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified;
who spoke by the prophets; and we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church; we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;and we look for the resurrection of the dead,and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Breakdown of this section of the Creed with emphasis on God the Holy Spirit.


And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life,


who proceeds from the Father [and the Son];


This section of the Creed proclaims the Holy Spirit as God, God the Holy Spirit here is stated as Lord. I noted in my God the Son lecture, Lord often being a replacement term for ‘God (YHWH)’ in both Testaments.


In traditional and ancient Western Theology, Roman Catholic and Protestant traditions the Holy Spirit is understood as proceeding from both the Father and the Son.


Proceeding from:


FILIOQUE-Pronounced FILLY O QUE or QAY (LATIN)


G.W. Bromiley states that the term ‘and from the Son' was not in the original 325 Nicene Creed or 381 Constantinople Creeds and was likely added to the Third Council of Toledo of 589. It was officially endorsed in 1017. Bromiley (1996: 415).


It did, in the minds of some historical commentators, in part, lead to a split between the Western and Eastern Churches with the Eastern Churches rejecting it. Split in 1054.


Both God the Father and God the Son sent the Holy Spirit in John 15: 26.


Bromiley further mentions that the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Christ (Son in Galatians) in Romans 8: 9 and Galatians 4: 6 which both support the same idea.


From ‘New Advent and The Catholic Encylopedia’ online edited by Kevin Knight, they call it double procession from the Father whereas typically Eastern/Orthodox churches will hold to views that the Holy Spirit proceeds only from the Father. They express the view that this was as well confirmed at the Third Council of Toledo in 589. Knight (2012).


Council of Toledo 589


Spain


Councils started at 400


At 589 the King and council supported the Filioque clause. 


Personally, I hold to the Protestant position, not primarily because I am Reformed but because of the Biblical text. I do not think this places Orthodox Eastern Christians in the category of cultic (outside of the faith) on this point.


But I do I think it is error.


Something to ponder on as in the ‘why I am Protestant category.’


who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified;


God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all worshipped and glorified. Matt joked previously that some within the Church mistakenly call the Holy Spirit ‘It’, but this is very true.

Boice explains that the Spirit is a person because He has knowledge, feelings and will and this is what is stated of God the Holy Spirit in the New Testament. Boice (1981: 376).

Boice further explains that the definition of the Holy Spirit as Counselor (Helper ESV) in John 14 from Christ is certainly that of one person describing another. Boice (1981: 376).

Following are some key examples where God the Holy Spirit is demonstrated as being fully God in glory as are the Father and Son.

We have noted that Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and Son is John 15.

The Holy Spirit as God is of course equally part of the Baptism formula at the ending of Matthew (28: 19).

Acts 2 and Pentecost we see the Holy Spirit is given to the Church along with manifestations in many Biblical cases.

The arrival of the Counselor as God the Son promised.

The disciples received the Holy Spirit in John 20: 22 post resurrection.

Acts 5 lying to the Holy Spirit equals lying to God. Ananias and Sapphira.

who spoke by the prophets; and we believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church;


Not the Roman Catholic Church in context which evolved in time, but the universal Church of the triune God in Christ that has been delivered through the Apostles of Christ such as Peter, John, James and Paul.


The Holy Spirit of course spoke through the Prophets, Apostles and Scribes in the development of the Old and New Testaments.

2 Timothy 3: 16 All Scripture is inspired by God.

we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;

and we look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.


In regard to Baptism for the remission of sin, that is a complex issue that is sideline us and I am not going to go into detail on that this afternoon theologically. But, as far the Creed is concerned as can be seen from the Baptismal formula of Matthew 28, God the Holy Spirit is a divine partner in Biblical Baptism. That is the point for today in a discussion of the Holy Spirit.

In regard to the resurrection of the dead, that is of course another complex theological topic and resurrection is essential to orthodox, Biblical Christian faith. Christ’s resurrection is noted in the Gospels and the resurrection of those in Christ in the future (1 Corinthians 15) is Biblical.

Romans 8:11 states that the Spirit raised Christ from the dead and will also raise believers in the future.

Importantly this is a divine Holy Spirit.

Therefore in the world to come the Holy Spirit as fully God would fully play as part the Spirit of God appears in a creation context in Genesis 1. A simple deduction that this same type of work would take place in a future restoration/New Earth/New Heaven/New Universe.

What the Arians believed in brief.


These are related to modern views of Jehovah’s Witnesses (Watchtower Bible and Tract Society) and other groups less famous that are also Arian inspired.


As was discussed in the God the Son section the Arians reasoned that only God the Father could have the divine essence of God, that being infinite and eternal. So therefore not only would Jesus Christ be a created secondary ‘god’ within this false theology, but the Holy Spirit would become less than Almighty God.


The Spirit had to be created by this view.


Simply not as much is written historically about God the Holy Spirit from the Arian perspective as the focus of the debate was the deity of God the Son.


But Roman Catholic scholar:


Rev.
Dr. B.B.M.J. Mackenzie-Hanson that according to the Arian heresy…

‘Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God are not part of the same triune but are separate entities.’


Apologist Matt Slick presents the opinion that


‘Some Arians even held that the Holy Spirit was the first and greatest creation of the Son.’


Further explanation on understanding the Holy Spirit.


As noted the Holy Spirit is creator. Noted in Genesis 1: 2.


The Holy Spirit gives prophecy and also inspires Scripture.


Reformed Theologian Erickson notes that the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament produced moral and spiritual qualities associated with holiness and goodness. Erickson (1994: 869-883).


Some Old Testament cases may have permanent but many others simply had the Holy Spirit for a designated time in order to fulfill the purposes of God.
Erickson (1994: 869-883).

It is therefore should not be a theological surprise to see the Holy Spirit of God take a more complete ministry in the lives of those in the Christian Church in the New Testament era.


The Holy Spirit as we hear at Christmas time was central in the incarnation of Christ. Biblically this is seen in the Gospel’s incarnation renderings of Matthew and Luke.


The Holy Spirit is portrayed as being with Christ at his Baptism (descending dove) and Christ was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 4:1).


The ministry of Christ was conducted through the power of the Holy Spirit, including the miraculous.


Theologian Boice explains that an aspect of the work of the Holy Spirit is to actually glorify God the Son. Boice (1981: 380-381).


The Spirit will guide believers in the truth and help them to be Christ-like. Boice (1981: 380-381).


So in a sense to glorify Christ.


In the believer, each is to be indwelled with the Holy Spirit and this would include spiritual illumination.


Being filled by the Holy Spirit is in my mind when God has more spiritual influence over a believer that is already indwelled.


Now the Holy Spirit is involved in the choosing of persons in election (Ephesians 1 and Romans 8) and certainly when one is born again as in John 3 the Holy Spirit of God is what makes a person ‘born again’.


Boice mentions that a Christ-like character is to be developed through the Holy Spirit. Boice (1981: 384).


The Holy Spirit is also an intercessor in prayers from believers to the triune God. Romans 8: 26-27.


There are gifts of the Holy Spirit:


Romans 12-Functions within the Church.


1 Corinthians 12-Spiritual abilities of persons via the Holy Spirit.


Ephesians 4-Offices of Church


1 Peter 4-Functions within the Church.


No one person would have every spiritual gift or office, including the spiritual gifts of 1 Corinthians. The body of Christ is inter-dependent on many persons within.


Conclusion


I can fully agree with Erickson that based on Biblical evidence and theological reasoning God the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, is an appropriate avenue by which to direct prayer as He is fully God. Erickson reasons this is just as valid as praying to the Father and the Son. Erickson (1994: 869-883).


One of my Theology professors at Trinity Western at the Seminary stated that although he was fully Trinitarian the Holy Spirit was not meant to be addressed primarily in prayer contrary to what Erickson just suggested.


Instead the prayer needed to take place through the Holy Spirit to God the Son as he is the mediator between God and humanity as Hebrews mentions.


Because God is of one substance and nature and therefore Christ was and is the fullness of deity in bodily form (Colossians 2: 9), if one is a Trinitarian Christian and addresses a prayer to the Holy Spirit it will be understood by God the Father and God the Son as well. The prayer will be in Christ.


Bibliography (Week 5)


BOICE, JAMES, MONTGOMERY (1981) Foundations of the Christian Faith, Downers Grove, IVP Press.


BROMILEY, G.W. (1996) ‘Filioque’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.) Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.


ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.


HANSON, Rev./Dr. B.B.M.J. Mackenzie-Hanson (2005-2006), Arian/Arianism

http://www.arian-catholic.org/arian/arianism.html

 

KNIGHT, KEVIN (2012) Filioque, New York, New Advent.

SLICK, MATTHEW J. (2012) Arianism, Nampa, Indiana, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry.


Bibliography (Week 3)


AQUINAS, SAINT THOMAS (1225-1274) Commentary on the Epistle to the Hebrews, translated by Fabian R. Larcher, Html-formated Joseph Kenny, Dominican House.

ASHBY, E G. (1986) 'Colossians' in The International Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Zondervan.

BAUER, WALTER (1979) A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Translated by Eric H. Wahlstrom, Chicago, The University of Chicago Press.

BLAISING, C.A. (1996) ‘Constantinople (381)’ Council of, in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

BLAISING, C.A. (1996) ‘Monarchianism' in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

BLAISING, C.A. (1996) ‘Nicea, Council of (325)’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

BOWMAN, ROBERT M. (1990) Why You Should Believe in the Trinity, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.

BROM, ROBERT H. (1983) The Eternal Sonship of Christ, San Diego, CIC 827.

BROMILEY, G.W. (1996) ‘Trinity’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

BROWNING, W.R.F. (1997) Dictionary of the Bible, Oxford, Oxford University Press.

BUCHSEL, HERMANN, MARTIN FRIEDRICH (1967) ‘BUCHSEL on μονογενης’ reproduced from Volume 4. of Theological Dictionary of The New Testament, Edited by Gerhard Kittel, Grand Rapids, Eerdmands.

BOYD, GREGORY A. (1992) Oneness Pentecostals and the Trinity, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

CALVIN, JOHN (1549) ‘Hebrews’ in Calvin’s Commentaries, Volume 44, Translated by John King (1847-1850), Santa Cruz, Sacred texts.com.

ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.

HARRISON, E.F. (1996) ‘Only-Begotten’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

HAWTHORNE, GERALD F. (1986) 'Hebrews' in The International Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Zondervan.

HUGHES, PHILIP. (1990) A Commentary On The Epistle To The Hebrews, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

KNIGHT, KEVIN (2009) First Council of Constantinople, New York, New Advent.

MARLOWE, MICHAEL (2006) The Only Begotten Son, New Philadelphia, Ohio, Bible Researcher Website.

MCCOMISKEY, T. E. (1996) ‘God, Names of’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

ORR, JAMES (1915) ‘Only-Begotten’, General Editor, Grand Rapids, International Standard Bible Encylopedia.

PACKER, J.I. (1993) ‘Incarnation God Sent His Son, To Save Us’ from Concise Theology: A Guide To Historic Christian Beliefs, New York, Tyndale House Publishers Inc.

STEIN, R.H. (1996) ‘Jesus Christ’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

STRONG, J. (1890)(1986) Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, Burlington, Welch Publishing Company.

TURNER, H. E. W. (1999) 'Sabellianism', in Alan Richardson and John Bowden (eds.), A New Dictionary of Christian Theology, Kent, SCM Press Limited.

WALTER, V.L. WALTER (1996) ‘Arianism’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

WRIGHT, N.T. (1989) Colossians and Philemon, Grand Rapids, IVP.


34 comments:

  1. Richard Dawson died yesterday.
    Atheist writer Dawkins continues to live.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Thank you, Chucky. I noted this and changed the main body to respect Mr. Dawson's death.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Hello, I enjoy reading through your post. I wanted to write a little comment to support you.
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    ReplyDelete
  4. "It was a privilege getting to know these students and listening to their stories. One brother, Raden, shared his testimony. With a fiery look in his eye and an intense tone in his voice, he said, "Before I became a Christian, I was a fighter. I learned ninja, jujitsu, and a variety of other techniques for taking people down.”

    I nodded. I was making a mental note: Don’t mess with Raden.

    He continued, “One day I was sharing the gospel in an unreached village with people who had never heard of Jesus. I was in one house sharing Christ with a family, and the witch doctor from the village came to the house.” Witch doctors and magic men are common in villages like these. They hold sway over entire communities with their curses and incantations.

    “The witch doctor called me out,” Raden said. “He wanted me to fight him.” Raden smiled as he confessed, “My first thought was to walk out there and take the witch doctor down. But when I turned to go outside, the Lord told me that I no longer need to do the fighting. God would do the fighting for me.”

    So Raden walked outside, pulled up a chair, and sat down in front of the witch doctor. He told his challenger, “I don’t do the fighting. My God does the fighting for me.”

    Raden recounted what happened next. “As the witch doctor attempted to speak, he began to gasp for air. He was choking and couldn’t breathe. People came running to see what was wrong, and within a few minutes the witch doctor had fallen over dead.”

    By now the entire village had crowded around the scene. Raden said, “I had never seen anything like this, and I didn’t know what to do. But then I thought, I guess this is a good time to preach the gospel.” Raden smiled and said, “So that’s what I did, and many people in that village trusted in Christ for the first time that day.”

    “The question for us, then, is whether we trust in his power. And the problem for us is that in our culture we are tempted at every turn to trust in our own power instead. So the challenge for us is to live in such a way that we are radically dependent on and desperate for the power that only God can provide.”

    (pp. 43-45, “Radical: Taking Back Your Faith From The American Dream,” by David Platt)


    "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Ephesians 6:12, KJV)

    ReplyDelete
  5. ‘Witch doctors and magic men are common in villages like these. They hold sway over entire communities with their curses and incantations.’

    Also stated by my Missions professor at Columbia Bible College. He had a very bizarre story about a witch doctor that supposedly flew an invisible airplane from village to village.

    Yes, I am very sceptical on that one.

    ‘Raden recounted what happened next. “As the witch doctor attempted to speak, he began to gasp for air. He was choking and couldn’t breathe. People came running to see what was wrong, and within a few minutes the witch doctor had fallen over dead.”’

    A little like Acts 5 mentioned in the post.

    Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  6. I saw this posting on Facebook. Excellent quote:

    The Blaze

    ‘During a Statehouse rally in March 2011, Ratliff said his support for traditional marriage was biblically based, adding, “This isn’t a private interpretation, a Burger King religion, and by that I mean a ‘have it your way’ religion.”’

    Not that social issues such as same-sex marriage are the primary issues and concerns on this blog or my other blog. My work is more on the philosophical side and less on the sociological. I support traditional marriage but also realize within the world system laws will be made to suit the intellectual elite in power, the masses and social trends. My main concern is protecting the Christian Church and its right to only support traditional marriage in contexts such as performing weddings and hiring practices in Christian institutions.

    ReplyDelete
  7. He had a very bizarre story about a witch doctor that supposedly flew an invisible airplane from village to village.

    Maybe he borrowed/stole it from Wonder Woman?

    ReplyDelete
  8. I thought of Wonder Woman at the time he stated it.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Amei o post, obrigada pelos comentários, grande abraço, lindo final de semana para você e sua familia.

    ReplyDelete
  10. long time no see tommy if you are still in need of them this is the link
    filling address , they have a deal on at the mo ,say myself give you there number

    ReplyDelete
  11. Are you looking for?

    Tommy Hilfiger? Not here.

    Tom Jones? Not here.

    Tommy from the Who? Not here.

    The Apostle Thomas? Not here. See John 20.

    Good evening.

    ReplyDelete
  12. They have a deal on at the Mahavishnu Orchestra? I didn't even know they were back together! Please provide the number, I want to get more boots!

    ReplyDelete
  13. Dawkins impersonator interviewed. Shows what a farce Dawkins really is.

    ReplyDelete
  14. Awesome rant on the European mess by Nigel Farage, UK Independence Party leader and European parliament member.

    ReplyDelete
  15. 'chucky hilfigger said...

    They have a deal on at the Mahavishnu Orchestra? I didn't even know they were back together! Please provide the number, I want to get more boots!'

    Mahavishu Orchestra boots are difficult to find, trust me...

    ReplyDelete
  16. 'chucky said...

    Reasons to doubt the existence of Richard Dawkins.'

    Satire that made me think and laugh.

    ReplyDelete
  17. 'chucky said...

    Dawkins impersonator interviewed. Shows what a farce Dawkins really is.'

    While I was listening, especially in the beginning, to the philosophical and scientific presentation of 'Dr. Dawkins' not 'Dawson' it made me think of what Dr. Habermas has stated, that many of the objections to theism and Christianity are emotional as opposed to actual intellectual, rational reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  18. chucky said...

    Awesome rant on the European mess by Nigel Farage, UK Independence Party leader and European parliament member.'

    As we discussed last evening, just a few minutes ago, I do not favour a United States of Europe or shared courts as in there being a EU highest court. I think EU citizenship has benefits within an open market system. Also some shared military commitments makes sense.

    The bottom line is there should be individual nation sovereignty while maintaining EU unity.

    ReplyDelete
  19. the Web site of Learn More about the
    Relevante links:

    ReplyDelete
  20. Since you provided no links I will assume I am providing relevant links.

    Good Evening.

    ReplyDelete
  21. From a non biblical scholar or expert in the Greek, its affirming to read your blog and the point below, that in Scripture, Lord is often used as a replacement for the term God! As you state below:
    This section of the Creed proclaims the Holy Spirit as God, God the Holy Spirit here is stated as Lord. I noted in my God the Son lecture, Lord often being a replacement term for ‘God (YHWH)’ in both Testaments.
    -Rogue Reader-

    ReplyDelete
  22. You made an important point that holds a lot of weight, because it is objective and shows your scholarly ideals,
    Personally, I hold to the Protestant position, not primarily because I am Reformed but because of the Biblical text. I do not think this places Orthodox Eastern Christians in the category of cultic (outside of the faith) on this point.
    -Ready Reader-

    ReplyDelete
  23. Once again nice balance of pics and writings for this article...well done.
    -Judge Rudy-

    ReplyDelete
  24. 'Anonymous said...

    From a non biblical scholar or expert in the Greek, its affirming to read your blog and the point below, that in Scripture, Lord is often used as a replacement for the term God! As you state below:
    This section of the Creed proclaims the Holy Spirit as God, God the Holy Spirit here is stated as Lord. I noted in my God the Son lecture, Lord often being a replacement term for ‘God (YHWH)’ in both Testaments.
    -Rogue Reader-'

    I am not a professional linguist, but then again those studies cannot be ignored with this type of work.

    Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  25. 'Anonymous said...

    You made an important point that holds a lot of weight, because it is objective and shows your scholarly ideals,
    Personally, I hold to the Protestant position, not primarily because I am Reformed but because of the Biblical text. I do not think this places Orthodox Eastern Christians in the category of cultic (outside of the faith) on this point.
    -Ready Reader-'

    Yes, being Biblical is more important than one's theological or philosophical background.

    ReplyDelete
  26. 'Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Once again nice balance of pics and writings for this article...well done.
    -Judge Rudy-'

    Much appreciated.

    ReplyDelete
  27. hello tom if you are still in need of them this is there contact
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    ReplyDelete
  28. You are still looking for Tom?

    I think when it involves you I am a doubting Thomas.

    Good morning.

    ReplyDelete
  29. thekingpin68.blogspot.fr is super!! But loads very slow

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  30. Any slowness would likely be due to your French ISP, IMHO.

    Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  31. It’s laborious to seek out educated people on this topic, however you sound like you already know what you’re talking about! Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  32. Learning and trying to learn more in Christ.

    Thank you and good evening.:)

    ReplyDelete