Saturday, November 01, 2008

Non-exhaustive thoughts on theonomy

Non-exhaustive thoughts on theonomy

Preface: Well done

Published originally November 1, 2008. My pastor quietly and without theological explanation (well-done, sir) snuck the word 'theonomy' into sermon #2 that I attended. Following is my brief work on theonomy, revised for June 25, 2023 and an entry on academica.edu.

Theonomy

N.H.G. Robinson and D.W.D. Shaw note that theonomy is an interpretation of a person’s life when ultimate ethical authority is found in the divine will. Autonomy would be self-imposed authority. Robinson and Shaw. (1999: 567). They reference Paul Tillich and note that he states that theonomy is a law or principle which brings together the law of people with the ground and source of all being. Robinson and Shaw. (1999: 567). For some autonomy and theonomy may be understood as the immanent and transcendent aspects of the ethics of theism. Robinson and Shaw. (1999: 567). These seem like reasonable definitions, although Tillich’s does not read as particularly Christian. God would be more than the ground and source of all being. God is the infinite (without logical contradiction), eternal, personal God that has revealed himself and laws that reflect his nature and will for humanity. Salvific revelation is provided through the Hebrew Bible and especially the New Testament.


This article is from 2008. The link is no longer the same. However, the material is originally cited from Monergism/Theonomy.

Updated for 2023 Monergism/Theonomy

Dr. Van Til taught us that "There is no alternative but that of theonomy and autonomy" (Christian-Theistic Ethics, p. 134). Every ethical decision assumes some final authority or standard, and that will either be self-law ("autonomy") or God's law ("theonomy"). While unbelievers consider themselves the ultimate authority in determining moral right or wrong, believers acknowledge that God alone has that position and prerogative. The position which has come to be labeled "theonomy" today thus holds that the word of the Lord is the sole, supreme, and unchallengeable standard for the actions and attitudes of all men in all areas of life. Our obligation to keep God's commands cannot be judged by any extrascriptural standard, such as whether its specific requirements (when properly interpreted) are congenial to past traditions or modern feelings and practices. 

Greg Bahnsen from What Is "Theonomy"? 

In my view, Van Til’s statement is true if one defines theonomy in very general terms only. Christians can certainly disagree on specific concepts concerning God’s law, and some will attempt to follow God and his law and not consider themselves theonomists, and/or necessarily be considered theonomists by all others involved. 

Theonomy can be defined simply as adherence to God's law, which would make all Christians, especially Reformed Christians, into theonomists. Here I define the term more narrowly as a school of thought within Reformed theology which prefers literal, specific, and detailed applications of Mosaic civil laws to modern civil government. The word "prefers" gives us some leeway. At points, the theonomists, like the rest of us, apply the law only in general and non-literal ways. But they tend more than the rest of us to prefer the specific and the literal. 

John Frame from Penultimate Thoughts on Theonomy 

I think that Frame’s definition is quite helpful. 

From: Theonomy The word "theonomy" derives from the Greek words “theos” God, and “nomos” law. 


Answer by Ra McLaughlin 

Question Aren't all Reformed Christians theonomists to one extent or another? To what extent are the moral and civil aspects of the Mosaic law still applicable today? Is it legitimate to claim, as modern advocates of theonomy do, that many of the divines at the Westminster Assembly were in fact theonomists? 

Answer No, not all Reformed Christians are theonomists, not even to a small extent. Some are, but some definitely are not. Of course, one difficulty in answering this question is that no single definition or understanding of theonomy exists. 

Here we see an apparent difference in opinion from Van Til especially and perhaps Frame.

I am Reformed and although I seek via the triune God, to do God's perfect will, I do not embrace the term 'theonomist' for myself.

McLaughlin is possibly looking at the definition of theonomy in specific terms. 

He continues: 

Rather, theonomy is variously defined by various people. Some theonomists contend that there are only two options: theonomy and autonomy -- either one accepts God's law, or one rejects it and establishes himself in God's place. It is this argument that most often leads people to say that all Reformed Christians are theonomists to some degree because all Reformed Christians respect the authority of God's law. By this move, theonomists often try to win the argument simply by a linguistic ploy: they define themselves as the only alternative to a rejection of God's authority. In reality, however, theonomy is not the only option. Theonomy is not just the acceptance of the authority of God's law. If that were the definition of "theonomy," then no one ever would have coined the term, and there would be no disagreement over the issue. 

McLaughlin is looking at the concept of theonomy is narrow terms. 

But in fact, theonomy represents a distinct perspective within the Reformed community that is different from the majority view. If this were not the case, we would not see the battles waged over it that we see today. Personally, I do not think that all the charges against theonomists are legitimate, just as I do not think that the theonomists' charges against others are legitimate… 

The theonomists are not completely unified in their own understanding of theonomy, but in my observation there is a unifying theme in most of their thinking. It seems to me that theonomy is an emphasis or tendency to apply the Law in ways that are more similar to the original applications of the Law than the applications made by non-theonomists. That is, theonomy regularly expresses the tendency to apply the Law in ways that are more rigidly defined by the actual examples and statements in Scripture. At first, this might seem like a positive definition of theonomy, as if they were truer to Scripture than the non-theonomists are. I would suggest, however, that the opposite is true… In the case of rejection, one denies the authority or applicability of the Law. For example, Dispensationalists commonly deny the applicability and authority of any Old Testament command that is not reiterated in the New Testament. Theonomists sometimes accuse non-theonomic Reformed theologians of rejecting the ceremonial and civil law, though as I have already stated this is a false characterization. Non-theonomists affirm the continuing binding authority of the moral aspects of all Old Testament laws… 

Hebrews makes it clear that there is a new covenant in Chapter 9: 11-28, and in Chapter 12: 24. I reason there is room for consideration and debate in how Old Testament and old covenant principles transfer over to the new covenant within the New Testament. We know specifically from Hebrews 7-12 that the old covenant sacrificial system was made obsolete by the atoning sacrifice and related resurrection of Christ. 

We know via Galatians 2:16-21 that we are not justified by the works of the law but through faith in Christ. We also can see from Romans 4 that Abraham, who was prior to Moses, was justified by faith and therefore I reason that no sinner has ever been justified by the works of the law, but the new covenant does replace the old. Jesus makes it clear in Matthew 5: 17-20 that he did not come to abolish the law and the prophets, but came to fulfill them. I do not see the need for Christians to follow Old Testament ceremonial law, as the atoning work and resurrection of Christ has put followers in a place where these ceremonies are obsolete, although we do have some new ceremonies such as baptism and the Lord’s Supper. 

The traditional Reformed perspective on the Law has been modified application, and both theonomists and non-theonomists think they fall into this camp. The difference between them, in my opinion, is that the theonomists tend to make fewer modifications, they tend toward facile immitation even though they do not hold that position in total. If we can imagine a continuum of views ranging from modifying everything (which almost looks like rejection) to modifying nothing (which looks pretty much like facile immitation), theonomists are closer to the end of the spectrum that modifies nothing than are non-theonomists. Regardless of who is in the middle, though, it is clear that there is a distinction between the two groups (they fight with one another enough to prove that). In this view, clearly not all Reformed Christians are theonomists. One does not earn the label "theonomist" simply by believing that the law is still applicable in some ways. 

Obeying God’s laws for the Christian should be a desire of one regenerated (John 3, Titus 3, 1 Peter 1) in Christ. Romans 10: 4 states that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. The law of God for Christians can be summed up from Matthew 22 and Mark 12 as we are to love God first and foremost and secondly we are to love our neighbour as ourselves. 

My negative thoughts on theonomy arise in that we cannot as Christians expect to force our morality and ethics on non-believers who are the majority in Western society. When God’s Kingdom is culminated the citizens will be regenerated believers that will willingly through transformation follow God’s law by nature. If there is a plain literal millennium of one thousand years, or any amount of time, the rebellion that takes place after the period is over in Revelation 20: 7-9 shows me that although God’s millennium Kingdom will have God’s law, it will not have citizens forced to believe in God. I reason this as the persons Satan would bring together to oppose God would not be regenerate. As well, even if hypothetically Biblical Christians were the majority in the Western World, I would advise people to be very careful concerning embracing theonomy that is not with divine love, enforced through the culminated Kingdom of God, with God the Son, as King. 

Would many of us really want Christians, that still possess sinful natures having the power of life and death over us? Consider this in light of theological disagreement. Would one want the state informing you what your theology should be? I would find this intellectually frightening as this type of theonomy would work hand in hand with theocracy. Potentially corrupted leadership at the top of the ‘Christian government’ could bring about persecution for those that disagree with the state, and at times these thinkers may be intellectually and Biblically closer to the truth.

I do not embrace the Western World, as it is in its present overly secularized state. I would prefer to see a Biblical Christian Church with much more influence within Western society in order to promote Christian morality and ethics, but not rule, in regard to law and order. 

BARCLAY, WILLIAM (1976) The Letters of James and Peter, Philadelphia, The Westminster Press. 

BAVINCK, HERMAN (1918)(2006) Reformed Dogmatics Volume 2: God and Creation, John Bolt (gen.ed.), Translated by John Vriend, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids. 

BAVINCK, HERMAN (1918)(2006) Reformed Dogmatics Volume 3: Sin and Salvation in Christ, John Bolt (gen.ed.), Translated by John Vriend, Baker Academic, Grand Rapids. 

BLACKBURN, SIMON (1996) Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Oxford, Oxford University Press.

BROWING, W.R.F. (1997) Oxford Dictionary of the Bible, Oxford, Oxford University Press. 

BRUCE, F.F. (1987) Romans, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1539)(1998) The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book II, Translated by Henry Beveridge, Grand Rapids, The Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html

CALVIN, JOHN (1539)(1998) The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book IV, Translated by Henry Beveridge, Grand Rapids, The Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html

CALVIN, JOHN (1540)(1973) Romans and Thessalonians, Translated by Ross Mackenzie, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1543)(1996) The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, Translated by G.I. Davies, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1550)(1978) Concerning Scandals, Translated by John W. Fraser, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1552)(1995) Acts, Translated by Watermark, Nottingham, Crossway Books. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1553)(1952) Job, Translated by Leroy Nixon, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1554)(1965) Genesis, Translated by John King, Edinburgh, The Banner of Truth Trust. 

CRANFIELD, C.E.B. (1992) Romans: A Shorter Commentary, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

COAD, F. ROY (1986) ‘Galatians’, in F.F. Bruce (gen.ed.), The International Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Marshall Pickering/ Zondervan. 

ELWELL, WALTER AND YARBROUGH, ROBERT W., Third Edition (2013) Encountering The New Testament, Grand Rapids, Baker Academic.

HUGHES, PHILIP, EDGCUMBE (1990) A Commentary On The Epistle To The Hebrews, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. 

MOUNCE, ROBERT H. (1995) The New American Commentary: Romans, Nashville, Broadman & Holman Publishers.

MURRAY, JOHN (1937-1966)(1977) Collected Writings of John Murray, Vol. 2: Select Lectures in Systematic Theology, Edinburgh, The Banner of Truth Trust. 

NUTE, ALAN G. (1986) in 'Titus', The International Bible Commentary, F.F. Bruce, General Editor, Grand Rapids, Zondervan/Marshall Pickering.

ROBINSON, N.H.G. AND SHAW D.W.D. (1999) ‘Theonomy’, in Alan Richardson and John Bowden (eds.), A New Dictionary of Christian Theology, Kent, SCM Press Ltd.

SHEDD, WILLIAM G.T. (1874-1890)(1980) Dogmatic Theology, Volume 1, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Publishers.

SHEDD, WILLIAM G.T. (1874-1890)(1980) Dogmatic Theology, Volume 2, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Publishers.

SHEDD, WILLIAM G.T. (1874-1890)(1980) Dogmatic Theology, Volume 1, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Publishers. 

SHEDD, WILLIAM G.T. (1874-1890)(1980) Dogmatic Theology, Volume 2, Nashville, Thomas Nelson Publishers.

 
My Mom sent me this picture. Who is the wizard?



 


Images: Google 

40 comments:

  1. This does present a challenge for the Christian politician -- how to influence the government in godly ways without forcing Biblical values on everyone. There needs to be a line drawn somewhere, what specific ethical issues should be legislated and which should not be? My own inclination would be that issues which involve force used against another should be legislated against, and issues that may be questionable but involve voluntary consent, and no force, should not be, but that is my libertarian leaning.

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  2. As Christians we should look to influence the law with just Christian principles. But we must live begrudgingly at times in this fallen and wicked realm with the fact that our views will often be those of the minority of citizens. God does at times allow societies to have anti-God laws that assist in their eventual destruction.

    Thanks, Sir Charles.

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  3. Hi Russ,

    I agree that all Christians, should be theonomists to the degree that they seek to do God's will, including obeying his Moral law.

    Theonomy as it is expounded by the theonomic camp, I tend to sit on the fence. I have read some of Greg Bahensen's stuff and I still remain on the fence.

    As for enforcing the law on unbelievers. I take the view of the Westminster Confession of Faith. CHXXXIII

    I. God, the supreme Lord and King of all the world, has ordained civil magistrates, to be, under Him, over the people, for His own glory, and the public good: and, to this end, has armed them with the power of the sword, for the defence and encouragement of them that are good, and for the punishment of evil doers.

    II. It is lawful for Christians to accept and execute the office of a magistrate, when called thereunto: in the managing whereof, as they ought especially to maintain piety, justice, and peace, according to the wholesome laws of each commonwealth; so, for that end, they may lawfully, now under the New Testament, wage war, upon just and necessary occasion.

    III. Civil magistrates may not assume to themselves the administration of the Word and sacraments; or the power of the keys of the kingdom of heaven; yet he has authority, and. it is his duty, to take order that unity and peace be. preserved in the Church, that the truth of God be kept pure. and entire, that all blasphemies and heresies be suppressed,. all corruptions and abuses in worship and discipline. prevented or reformed, and all the ordinances of God duly. settled, administrated, and observed. For the better. effecting whereof, he has power to call synods, to be present. at them and to provide that whatsoever is transacted in them. be according to the mind of God. or, in the least, interfere in matters of faith. Yet, as nursing fathers, it is the duty of civil magistrates to protect the Church of our common Lord, without giving the preference to any denomination of Christians above the rest, in such a manner that all ecclesiastical persons whatever shall enjoy the full, free, and unquestioned liberty of discharging every part of their sacred functions, without violence or danger. And, as Jesus Christ has appointed a regular government and discipline in his Church, no law of any commonwealth should interfere with, let, or hinder, the due exercise thereof, among the voluntary members of any denomination of Christians, according to their own profession and belief. It is the duty of civil magistrates to protect the person and good name of all their people, in such an effectual manner as that no person be suffered, either upon pretense of religion or of infidelity, to offer any indignity, violence, abuse, or injury to any other person whatsoever: and to take order, that all religious and ecclesiastical assemblies be held without molestation or disturbance..

    IV. It is the duty of people to pray for magistrates, to honour their persons, to pay them tribute or other dues, to obey their lawful commands, and to be subject to their authority, for conscience' sake. Infidelity, or difference in religion, does not make void the magistrates' just and legal authority, nor free the people from their due obedience to them: from which ecclesiastical persons are not exempted, much less has the Pope any power and jurisdiction over them in their dominions, or over any of their people; and, least of all, to deprive them of their dominions, or lives, if he shall judge them to be heretics, or upon any other pretence.


    As for not enforcing our morals and ethics on unbeleivers, I can see the sense of that. Yet, as the same time, unbelievers have no more excuse than we do, (in God's eyes) disobey his law or anytihng else he proscribes. Yes, we are saved by grace, and grace alone, but if we were each not responsible for our behaviour or anything else, then there would be no hell. Everyone should obey God's moral law, regardless of what they believe or not. Which I know is not likely or reasonable to expect, but it should still be the standard, or else any unbeliever has every excuse and justification for doing whatever he wills, and we must call God unjust for condemning people to eternal punishment.

    As an aside to your blog post content. May I make a suggestion for your posting? I don't have great vision, it is very affected with my condition. And I find it hard to discern much of the time when reading your blogs, which is your own comments and which is your quotes. May I suggest for myself and anyone else who may have similar difficulty, you switch from italics, to bold text for one or the other, it would just make it more obvious to who is saying what. As it becomes quite confusing to follow when you can't be sure who is saying what. And you have some good posts on here, but I find it difficult to follow lots of times because of that.

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  4. Thanks, Deejay.

    I may switch to bold text for my own comments when needed, and have in the past.

    Italics does clearly indicate a quote, but I realize that normal text would be easier to read.

    Also with Internet Explorer under View, Text Size can be made Largest, at least for reading my blogs.

    Cheers,

    Russ:)

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  5. I certainly could not agree that all 'reformed' Christians are Theonomist, either. For one, for someone to say they are a Christian does not necessarily mean what we would expect for it to mean, anymore. We have to search deeper when attempting to understand a person's brand of Christianity.
    A lot of, so called 'reformed' Christians are in another movement of reform, entirely. The 'progressive' movement.

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  6. I certainly could not agree that all 'reformed' Christians are Theonomist, either.

    Agreed, by the specific definition.

    I also agree there is a difference between those of us that are Reformed Christians, and those that are for reform as in being liberal/progressive.

    Thank you, Jim.

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  7. Hey Russ,
    Here is another blogger to add to our network.
    His name is Larry. lmouser . Let him know I sent you so you can link up.
    Jim

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  8. Blockquotes is another option. There are often varied reasons I won't bore you with, why someone may not actually notice the subtle change from normal text to italics, however enlarged the print may be.

    Thanks, Russ.

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  9. Thanks, Deejay.

    I am not going to use block quotes as they are academically meant for a specific length of quote. Wales drilled this into my mind.;)

    I may just use quote marks as I desire for my own text to be in bold, if I do use bold text. I will need to clearly point out that something quoted is a citation and not my own writing.

    Russ;)

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  10. Thanks, Big Jim.

    I need people like you to look out for me.

    Russ;)

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  11. Russ,
    Here is another new contact. Her name is Jody at Jody Lynne.
    She is expecting visits. Let her know you are in the network.
    Thanks, Jim

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  12. Hey, Russ,
    I like the picture and the 2 cartoons, which I truly find funny. I hope that it is beautiful and bright in Canada, and especially in your home.
    Blessings,
    Vicki

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  13. Thanks, Vicki.

    I hope that life and blogging is going very well for you.

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  14. Calvin's tripartite division of God's Law into Moral, Civil and Ceremonial is a false trichotomy that is not Biblically supported. All of the Law is "moral" and to that end, the Theonomist is logically inconsistent when he (arbitrarily) determines which "laws" are now applicable; and this is a real problem with the Rushdoony school of theonomy (of which Bahnsen, Sandlin, et al ascribe).

    The fundamental problem with Theonomy, however, is in its misunderstanding of how Jesus has fulfilled the Law. Everything in the Scripture is about Him! For us to continue to not only put ourselves as Christians under "law" but also the non-Christian is to misunderstand Paul who in the book of Galatians stresses that now that "faith" has come (now that Christ has come), the Law has completed its work. And how could it be any other way since Jesus has FULFILLED the Law (as He Himself has said!).

    If Theonomists want to continue to trample the blood of Christ under their feet by binding themselves to the so-called "moral" Law, I say let 'em! They will have to deal with God about this. But tell them to leave the rest of us alone! Jesus has removed the yoke of Law from us and has replaced it with His yoke--a yoke that is easy! Theonomists can have their precious Law--I'll take its fulfillment, Jesus Christ. The Bible even speaks of Believers as acutally having already fulfilled the Law themselves--IN CHRIST!

    Sorry about the rant. This stuff just upsets the..."heck" out of me! :-) (Can you tell?)

    I'm sure I'll be labeled an "antinomian"; but that won't bother me. Properly speaking, if you are a Christian you ARE antinomian already. Are we bound by Law? If you are a Christian and answered, "yes", well...I just don't know what to say. I'm not bound by Law, I'm bound by the Spirit of Christ who is even now conforming me (back) into the image and likeness of God (Christ). And He does this not by Law, but by the principle of the New Creation in Christ--He, NOT the Law, transforms us.

    Okay...I'm done. I have to have some lunch now before I get burned at the bloggers stake! :-)

    GGM

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  15. Hi Russ,
    Say hello to Patricia Hickman. She is a novelist. I expect she will be a great addition to your network.

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  16. Cheers, Jim.

    I will look into it.

    There are some new comments on the latest satire and theology article.

    Russ

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  17. And how could it be any other way since Jesus has FULFILLED the Law (as He Himself has said!).

    We agree.

    The Bible even speaks of Believers as acutally having already fulfilled the Law themselves--IN CHRIST!

    Romans 10: 4 states that Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. The law of God for Christians can be summed up from Matthew 22 and Mark 12 as we are to love God first and foremost and secondly we are to love our neighbours as ourselves.

    I'm sure I'll be labeled an "antinomian"; but that won't bother me.

    By some, perhaps, but really like me you are simply not a theonomist by the specific definition discussed in the article.

    Thanks, GGM.

    Russ

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  18. I'll look at S&T later. Probably tomorrow as I am heading out to watch Monday Night Football.
    Thanks for the invite.
    Jim

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  19. Hello Russ,

    Would one want the state informing you what your theology should be? I would find this intellectually frightening as this type of theonomy would work hand in hand with theocracy. Potentially corrupted leadership at the top of the ‘Christian government’ could bring about persecution for those that disagree with the state, and at times these thinkers may be intellectually and Biblically closer to the truth.

    It looks like America is heading down this road already. Government -v- Christians.

    Isn't this what must happen for the scriptures to be fulfilled?

    Blessings to you Russ :)

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  20. Thanks Tamela.

    I do not want any religious state ruling over me unless it is ruled directly by Christ as God.

    A kingdom ruled by the antichrist through Satan is of course frightening, but I would not even want persons from own denomination running a religious state. Too much power can even corrupt godly persons that mean well, as we are still sinners within this realm.

    I would like to see the Church have a much greater moral and practical impact on Western society than presently though.

    Russ

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  21. Thanks for your reply Russ, I agree with you.

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  22. Let your conscience be your guide??
    Perhaps our sense of right and wrong, good and evil, guilt and innocence stretch beyond our cultural and historical identity and influence and come from God our Creator, after all, if we are created in His image, surely we would bear a resemblance to his characteristics, this would lead me to believe that a state of Autonomy is still connected to Theonomy and that our sense of right and wrong is still prevalent because we are created moral beings because our Creator is Moral!
    -Anthony/Autonomy-

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  23. Subject: Fw: Why did the chicken cross the road?

    Why did the chicken cross the road?

    BARACK OBAMA:

    The chicken crossed the road because it was time for a change! The chicken wanted change!

    SARAH PALIN:

    I could see the chicken crossing the road from my house.

    JOHN McCAIN:

    My friends, that chicken crossed the road because he recognized the need to engage in cooperation and dialogue with all the chickens on the other side of the road.

    HILLARY CLINTON:

    When I was First Lady, I personally helped that little chicken to cross the road. This experience makes me uniquely qualified to ensure - right from Day One! - that every chicken in this country gets the chance it deserves to cross the road. But then, this really isn't about me.

    GEORGE W. BUSH:

    We don't really care why the chicken crossed the road. We just want to know if the chicken is on our side of the road, or not. The chicken is either against us, or for us. There is no middle ground here.

    DICK CHENEY:

    Where's my gun?

    COLIN POWELL:

    Now to the left of the screen, you can clearly see the satellite image of the chicken crossing the road.

    BILL CLINTON:

    I did not cross the road with that chicken. What is your definition of chicken?

    AL GORE:

    I invented the chicken.

    JOHN KERRY:

    Although I voted to let the chicken cross the road, I am now against it! It was the wrong road to cross, and I was misled about the chicken's' intentions. I am not for it now, and will remain against it.

    AL SHARPTON:

    Why are all the chickens white? We need some black chickens.

    DR. PHIL:

    The problem we have here is that this chicken won't realize that he must first deal with the problem on this side of the road
    before it goes after the problem on the other side of the road. What we need to do is help him realize how stupid he's acting by not taking on his current problems before adding new problems.

    OPRAH:

    Well, I understand that the chicken is having problems, which is why he wants to cross this road so bad. So instead of having the
    chicken learn from his mistakes and take falls, which is a part of life, I'm going to give this chicken a car so that he can just drive across the road and not live his life like the rest of the chickens.

    ANDERSON COOPER, CNN:

    We have reason to believe there is a chicken, but we have not yet been allowed to have access to the other side of the road.

    NANCY GRACE:

    That chicken crossed the road because he's guilty! You can see it in his eyes and the way he walks.

    PAT BUCHANAN:

    To steal the job of a decent, hardworking American.

    MARTHA STEWART:

    No one called me to warn me which way that chicken was going. I had a standing order at the Farmer's Market to sell my eggs when the price dropped to a certain level. No little bird gave me any insider information.

    DR SEUSS:

    Did the chicken cross the road? Did he cross it with a toad? Yes, the chicken crossed the road, but why it crossed I've not been told.

    ERNEST HEMINGWAY:

    To die in the rain, alone.

    GRANDPA:

    In my day we didn't ask why the chicken crossed the road. Somebody told us the chicken crossed the road, and that was good enough.

    BARBARA WALTERS:

    Isn't that interesting? In a few moments, we will be listening to the chicken tell, for the first time, the heart warming story of how it experienced a serious case of molting, and went on to accomplish its lifelong dream of crossing the road.

    ARISTOTLE:

    It is the nature of chickens to cross the road.

    JOHN LENNON:

    Imagine all the chickens in the world crossing roads together, in peace.

    BILL GATES:

    I have just released eChicken2009, which will not only cross roads, but will lay eggs, file your important documents, and
    balance your checkbook. Internet Explorer is an integral part of eChicken2008. This new platform is much more stable and will never reboot.

    ALBERT EINSTEIN:

    Did the chicken really cross the road, or did the road move beneath the chicken?

    COLONEL SANDERS:

    Did I miss one?

    Church bloopers

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  24. Thanks, Jason.

    A comment I made on Thoughts and Theology:

    thekingpin68 said...

    1 Corinthians 7: 9
    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

    I am NOT making excuses for sex sin, for which I ask the Lord for forgiveness in the atoning work and constant cleansing, although I do not give money to the sex trade or join porn sites, but the lack of Christian women to marry, in my area at least, is a major problem.

    I am not certain why the Lord has allowed the evangelical church to become so worldly, with so many within dating non-believers etc., but from my perspective I WANT to follow 1 Corinthians 7: 9, but need something to work with. Someone suggested to me last Sunday to forget about looks, intellect and even having children, but this is capitulation, not just compromise. This is taking a kick to the head in an attempt to overcome a headache. I should not expect someone near perfect, but as Christian marriage requires significant commitment there has to at least be significant spiritual, intellectual, and physical attraction. If it is unreasonable to find what I would like with compromise in this fallen world, it is also unreasonable to expect a man of my age and lack of experience to settle down with someone else's teens, or worse adult children, with a quite possibly overweight woman that does not work out. I work out a lot even with the negative results of sleep apnea.

    I have had a choice between the lessor of two evils, being with someone wrong and therefore sinning in many ways, including still struggling with desire for someone attractive and compatible, or being alone and struggling with sin, and I have went with the right decision.

    Here is where my MPhil and PhD work come into play. Just as many Christians in error favour a free will theodicy over a sovereignty theodicy, many Christians and people of the world will attempt to primarily blame me for my situation. Well, I have made mistakes but not with a right woman.

    Is it my fault God has elected few in Western society? No.

    Is it my fault so many Christian women date non-believers? No.

    It is my fault that so many Christian women do not study much Bible and theology, and therefore do not relate to me? No.

    Russ:)

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  25. Russ,
    Thanks for coming over via Jim and checking out the blog. I too am reformed, and a recovering Armenian. I have been clean for three years though. :)
    Scott

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  26. Hello Russ,

    Thanks for the James White views.. i really liked what he had to say.. I am going to pass it on! Thanks again :)

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  27. Thanks, Tamela.

    I have a new funny posting on satire and theology, and please check out the comments.;)

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  28. Russ,

    Here is an interesting video saying that the Pope says that the Scriptures are open to holding the Jewish view of Jesus. If you have Catholic readers, their opinions on this would be interesting.

    However, just so I'm not sounding like I'm bashing Catholics, and to round it out a bit, John Hagee said that Jesus did not come to Earth to be the Messiah.

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  29. Hey Russ,
    God bless your mom! I like that picture of Sarah Palin. If you look closely, others are recognizable.
    I hope your Sunday is bright and beautiful.
    Vicki

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  30. Hi Russ, another cool subject.
    It seems to me that some people like to own terms like this. Again it's sort of like we are this and no body else has the insight that we have if you get my drift. So I think your comments about all Christians being Theonimists or some Reformers not being Theonimists is pretty well spot on.

    Over the years I have seem some of the loudest and most dogmatic turn out to be lost at sea and fallen badly bringing down many with them.

    So Theonimist or not I will endeavor to do God's will in my life what ever it takes. In the end He will be the best judge of that.

    I'm slowly getting back into the swing of things mate.

    Russell.

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  31. Hi Russ, another cool subject.

    It seems to me that some people like to own terms like this. Again it's sort of like we are this and no body else has the insight that we have if you get my drift.

    So I think your comments about all Christians being Theonimists or some Reformers not being Theonimists is pretty well spot on.

    Over the years I have seem some of the loudest and most dogmatic turn out to be lost at sea and fallen badly bringing down many with them. So Theonimist or not I will endeavour to do God's will in my life what ever it takes. In the end He will be the best judge of that.

    Getting back into the swing of things mate. Russell.

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  32. Hi Russ, another cool subject.

    It seems to me that some people like to own terms like this. Again it's sort of like we are this and no body else has the insight that we have if you get my drift.

    So I think your comments about all Christians being Theonimists or some Reformers not being Theonimists is pretty well spot on. Over the years I have seem some of the loudest and most dogmatic turn out to be lost at sea and fallen badly bringing down many with them.

    So Theonimist or not I will endeavour to do God's will in my life what ever it takes. In the end He will be the best judge of that.

    Getting back into the swing of things mate. Russell.

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  33. Thanks, Russell.

    Sorry about the Blogger comments problem.

    The three comments are not identical and so I will leave them all...no problem at all, mate.

    I am happy with the comments, but if you choose to delete two I will delete the remnant, but I am happy with them as they are if you are.

    Over the years I have seem some of the loudest and most dogmatic turn out to be lost at sea and fallen badly bringing down many with them.

    Is that not what is often so annoying about the radical fundamentalist left and right? And then when they fall it sometimes makes a big thud and big stink.

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