Tour of LDS Temple, Langley, BC
Preface
This Blogger article originally published 20100420, revised 20250822.
As well as this 2010 visit, I also toured Temple Square in Salt Lake City in 2018. It was a life goal to see that, as I am interested in this particular religious movement, intellectually. The hosts were kind.
Photos: Langley, BC, Google Images
20100420
This evening my friend Zombie and I toured the new Langley Temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS). As many of my readers will realize, I have nothing personally against them, or any religious or philosophical group. But my Biblical Reformed theology differs on several points from the LDS and here are two key points of theological difference:
The nature of God
I wrote on a previous post:
Joseph Smith and Gods
Joseph Smith, the founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Days Saints writes that there is a plurality of gods. Smith preached on June 16,1844, eleven days before his death, that a plurality of Gods existed and that the head God organized the heavens and the earth. Smith (1844)(2006: 1). He explains that the idea of the God of the Christian Trinity is a strange one. Smith (1844)(2006: 1). He also states that the Bible supports the idea of the plurality of Gods. Smith (1844)(2006: 1). The founder of the Latter-Day Saints reasons that if Jesus Christ had a Father, that God the Father would have a Father as well. This concept would create an infinite regression of Father Gods. Smith (1844)(2006: 1).
The Walter Martin website has some interesting comments on this view. Martin first points out that the Bible in Isaiah, clearly states that there is just one God in Chapters 43:10-11, 44:6, 8; 45:5, and 21–22. He also mentions that the Lord is called one Lord in Deuteronomy 6:4. Martin (2006: 1). He further explains that others are called god in the Bible such as Moses to Pharaoh in Exodus 7:1, but this is a metaphorical use and is not claiming that Moses is the one and only true God. In Psalm 82 and John 10:34, the judges according to Martin are not intrinsic deity, but became mighty ones like Gods in the eyes of the people. In Psalm 82 and John 10:34 the judges are shown to be sinful men that were in no way to be confused with the God of the Bible in nature. Martin (2006: 1). The Bible in both the Hebrew Bible and New Testament is not only stating that there is only one true God to worship, but that there is only one God in existence period.
I am not going to heavily discuss Trinitarian theology within this article, but I shall state that it is believed within Christianity that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons (or three distinctions) of one, substance, nature and essence, and therefore are not three eternal Gods, but one eternal God. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is called the exact representation of God’s nature, and in Acts 5:3-4 the Holy Spirit is called God. Philip Edgcume Hughes writes that in Hebrews 1:3, the Greek word translated 'nature' denotes the very essence of God. Christ is the representation of the Father and shares the same substance as God. Hughes (1990: 43-44). So whatever distinctions can be drawn concerning the Father and Son, Biblically it must be concluded that from Hebrews 1:3 they are of the same nature (υποστασεως ) The Greek New Testament (1993: 741) and substance. Hughes (1990: 43-44). They are not two Gods, but two distinctions within one God, and the Holy Spirit from Acts 5 is also shown to be God sharing in the same nature and substance as the Father and Son. Jesus Christ as both God and man has a finite, everlasting, human body, in the incarnation, but God the Son shares the same infinite, eternal, spiritual substance as the Father and Holy Spirit.
ὑποστάσεως hypostaseōs (substance)
Matthew J. Slick notes that the Latter-Day Saints' idea of Gods, which originated with Joseph Smith, teaches an infinite regression of causes. Slick (2006: 1). Each God came into existence from a previous God, and this has gone on in an infinite past. Slick (2006: 1). There cannot be an infinite regression of Gods because this would require an infinite amount of time which would not allow us to arrive at the present. In contrast the idea of the Christian Trinity is that God has always existed and existed prior to time and therefore God has not lived for an infinite amount of time. God created time, but existed in a timeless state prior to the creation of time and matter.
In the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Simon Blackburn discusses ‘infinite regress’ and mentions that this occurs in a vicious way whenever a problem tries to solve itself and yet remains with the same problem it had previously. Blackburn (1996: 324). A vicious regress is an infinite regress that does not solve its own problem, while a benign regress is an infinite regress that does not fail to solve its own problem. Blackburn (1996: 324). Blackburn writes that there is frequently room for debate on what is a vicious regress or benign regress. Blackburn (1996: 324). In The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, William Tolhurst writes that a vicious regress is in some way unacceptable as it would include an infinite series of items dependent on prior items. A vicious regress may be impossible to hold to philosophically, or it may be inconsistent. Tolhurst (1996: 835).
In conclusion, Smith's and the Latter-Days Saints' view on the nature of God is problematically, unfixable, unreasonable and untrue.
Works salvation
Tonight the kind hostess at the Langley Temple, placed more emphasis on doing good works for salvation, than she did on the atoning and resurrection work of Christ.
My views are contrary to any form of works righteousness. Biblically one is chosen/elected (Ephesians 1, Romans 1-8), born again (John 3), regenerated (Titus 3) and moulded into a believer via the salvific, atoning, justifying and sanctification work of Jesus Christ unto good works. This culminates post-mortem is resurrection and glorification (1 Corinthians 15, Revelation 20-22, as examples).
Ephesians 2: 8-10 is a good summary of my reasoning.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (New American Standard Bible)
8For (A)by grace you have been saved (B)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (C)the gift of God;
9(D)not as a result of works, so that (E)no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, (F)created in (G)Christ Jesus for (H)good works, which God (I)prepared beforehand so that we would (J)walk in them.
From James 2:17, we know that faith without works is dead, and so a sign (not the only sign) of real Christian faith is to walk in good works. But, I admit that it is possible that these good works can be limited as in the apparent example of a person saved with works burned up in 1 Corinthians 3: 12-15.
Zombie
My review will be quite different from Russ'. Everyone seemed happy to showcase the new Langley temple-the sheer amount of guides and volunteers was intriguing. The structure and the ornate furnishings seemed to impress and captivate some of our group- almost designed to draw new recruits into something large and awe inspiring- to be part of something bigger than themselves.
Though everyone was welcoming I did feel a bit unnerved at the presence of some staff upstairs, watching you intently, making certain you didn't vandalize the temple in some way or wander somewhere you shouldn't be.
I can understand that only members would be allowed into the most private worship chambers- I just felt awkward and out of place as a result. I don't have a background in theology so I'm not qualified to comment on the differences between Christianity and Mormonism. Everyone smiled and was gracious, the interior of the temple was more beautiful than the exterior and maybe that was the problem with me- it seemed the hosts wanted the focus on the structure and elaborate furnishings and not on doctrine.
Maybe as you ask more questions and spend more time in the belief system you would find out more about specific aspects of what the Mormons believe and why.
Thanks to Russ/Kingpin68 for driving that night.
"Zombie"
Matthew J. Slick notes that the Latter-Day Saints' idea of Gods, which originated with Joseph Smith, teaches an infinite regression of causes. Slick (2006: 1). Each God came into existence from a previous God, and this has gone on in an infinite past. Slick (2006: 1). There cannot be an infinite regression of Gods because this would require an infinite amount of time which would not allow us to arrive at the present. In contrast the idea of the Christian Trinity is that God has always existed and existed prior to time and therefore God has not lived for an infinite amount of time. God created time, but existed in a timeless state prior to the creation of time and matter.
In the Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Simon Blackburn discusses ‘infinite regress’ and mentions that this occurs in a vicious way whenever a problem tries to solve itself and yet remains with the same problem it had previously. Blackburn (1996: 324). A vicious regress is an infinite regress that does not solve its own problem, while a benign regress is an infinite regress that does not fail to solve its own problem. Blackburn (1996: 324). Blackburn writes that there is frequently room for debate on what is a vicious regress or benign regress. Blackburn (1996: 324). In The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, William Tolhurst writes that a vicious regress is in some way unacceptable as it would include an infinite series of items dependent on prior items. A vicious regress may be impossible to hold to philosophically, or it may be inconsistent. Tolhurst (1996: 835).
In conclusion, Smith's and the Latter-Days Saints' view on the nature of God is problematically, unfixable, unreasonable and untrue.
Works salvation
Tonight the kind hostess at the Langley Temple, placed more emphasis on doing good works for salvation, than she did on the atoning and resurrection work of Christ.
My views are contrary to any form of works righteousness. Biblically one is chosen/elected (Ephesians 1, Romans 1-8), born again (John 3), regenerated (Titus 3) and moulded into a believer via the salvific, atoning, justifying and sanctification work of Jesus Christ unto good works. This culminates post-mortem is resurrection and glorification (1 Corinthians 15, Revelation 20-22, as examples).
Ephesians 2: 8-10 is a good summary of my reasoning.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (New American Standard Bible)
8For (A)by grace you have been saved (B)through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (C)the gift of God;
9(D)not as a result of works, so that (E)no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, (F)created in (G)Christ Jesus for (H)good works, which God (I)prepared beforehand so that we would (J)walk in them.
From James 2:17, we know that faith without works is dead, and so a sign (not the only sign) of real Christian faith is to walk in good works. But, I admit that it is possible that these good works can be limited as in the apparent example of a person saved with works burned up in 1 Corinthians 3: 12-15.
The hostess/guide stated incorrectly twice that baptism is required for salvation. In contrast, in the New Testament, Baptism is rather tied to the salvation process as an act of obedience (Matthew 28: 19-20). Baptism being a human work, in a sense, cannot be a cause of salvation.
In conclusion, human salvation is up to God via compatibilism/soft determinism and certainly not up to incompatibilistic libertarian free will decisions of persons. Although I reason that no person is forced or coerced into heaven and embracing the gospel, by God. At the same time the unregenerate by nature and choice reject God and the gospel, and are not forced or coerced to do so.
In conclusion, human salvation is up to God via compatibilism/soft determinism and certainly not up to incompatibilistic libertarian free will decisions of persons. Although I reason that no person is forced or coerced into heaven and embracing the gospel, by God. At the same time the unregenerate by nature and choice reject God and the gospel, and are not forced or coerced to do so.
---
BLACKBURN, S. (1996) ‘Regress’, in Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy,Oxford, Oxford University Press.
CONWAY DAVID A. AND RONALD MUNSON (1997) The Elements of Reasoning, Wadsworth Publishing Company, New York.
CRAIG, WILLIAM LANE, (1991)(2006) ‘The Existence of God and the Beginning of the Universe’,Truth: A Journal of Modern Thought 3 (1991) 85-96. http://www.leaderu.com/truth/3truth11.html pp. 1-18.
CRANFIELD, C.E.B. (1992) Romans: A Shorter Commentary, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
EDWARDS, JONATHAN (1729)(2006) Sovereignty of God, New Haven, Connecticut, Jonathan Edwards Center, Yale University. http://edwards.yale.edu/archive/documents/page?document_id=10817&search_id=&source_type=edited&pagenumber=1
EDWARDS, JONATHAN (1731-1733)(2006) Law of Nature, New Haven, Connecticut, Jonathan Edwards Center, Yale University.
EDWARDS, JONATHAN (1754)(2006) Freedom of the Will, Flower Mound, Texas.http://www.jonathanedwards.com
ERICKSON, MILLARD (1994) Christian Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.
HUGHES, P. (1990) A Commentary On The Epistle To The Hebrews, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
HUGHES, P. (1990) A Commentary On The Epistle To The Hebrews, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
MARTIN, WALTER (1965)(1997) The Kingdom of The Cults, Minneapolis, Bethany House Publishers. Christianity, Cults & Religions (1996) (2010), Hendrickson Publishers, Rose Publishing, MA.
MARTIN, WALTER (2006) 'The Mormon Doctrine of God', San Juan Capistrano, Walter Martin.org.
http://www.waltermartin.org/mormon.html#mormdoc
MARTIN, WALTER (2006) 'The Mormon Doctrine of God', San Juan Capistrano, Walter Martin.org.
http://www.waltermartin.org/mormon.html#mormdoc
MOUNCE, ROBERT H. (1990) The Book of Revelation, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.
MOUNCE, ROBERT H. (1995) The New American Commentary: Romans, Nashville, Broadman & Holman Publishers.
SLICK, MATTHEW J. (2006) 'A logical proof that Mormonism is false', Meridian, Idaho, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry,
http://www.carm.org/lds/infinity.htm
SMITH, JOSEPH (1844)(2006) ‘Sermon by the Prophet-The Christian Godhead-Plurality of Gods’, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479.
http://www.utlm.org
TOLHURST, WILLIAM (1996) 'Vicious Regress', in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
SLICK, MATTHEW J. (2006) 'A logical proof that Mormonism is false', Meridian, Idaho, Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry,
http://www.carm.org/lds/infinity.htm
SMITH, JOSEPH (1844)(2006) ‘Sermon by the Prophet-The Christian Godhead-Plurality of Gods’, History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 473-479.
http://www.utlm.org
TOLHURST, WILLIAM (1996) 'Vicious Regress', in Robert Audi, (ed.), The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press.
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The hosts
Overall the hosts were kind. The Temple seems well constructed in an aesthetic sense. My friend Zombie felt we were being observed and I think the staff was desiring to present the Temple as a holy place of reverence. The refreshments were appreciated and the shuttle from their old meetinghouse to the new one and the Temple was helpful.
Zombie and I decided not to mingle after the presentation as we figured I could get into a debate and Zombie had to get up early the next morning to go to work. On the way to the Temple, Zombie asked me how we were going to play this, as in wondering if I was going to be argumentative that evening.
Overall the hosts were kind. The Temple seems well constructed in an aesthetic sense. My friend Zombie felt we were being observed and I think the staff was desiring to present the Temple as a holy place of reverence. The refreshments were appreciated and the shuttle from their old meetinghouse to the new one and the Temple was helpful.
Zombie and I decided not to mingle after the presentation as we figured I could get into a debate and Zombie had to get up early the next morning to go to work. On the way to the Temple, Zombie asked me how we were going to play this, as in wondering if I was going to be argumentative that evening.
No, I was respectful and listened...but I do have academic websites. Sure, I am an informed philosopher at some points, but that was not the time or place.
So, we walked back to the old meetinghouse and drove away.
Please stay tuned, I asked Zombie for his own review and he stated that he would write one which I shall place below.
It will be quite a bit different than this one.
So, we walked back to the old meetinghouse and drove away.
Please stay tuned, I asked Zombie for his own review and he stated that he would write one which I shall place below.
It will be quite a bit different than this one.
ZombieMy review will be quite different from Russ'. Everyone seemed happy to showcase the new Langley temple-the sheer amount of guides and volunteers was intriguing. The structure and the ornate furnishings seemed to impress and captivate some of our group- almost designed to draw new recruits into something large and awe inspiring- to be part of something bigger than themselves.
Though everyone was welcoming I did feel a bit unnerved at the presence of some staff upstairs, watching you intently, making certain you didn't vandalize the temple in some way or wander somewhere you shouldn't be.
I can understand that only members would be allowed into the most private worship chambers- I just felt awkward and out of place as a result. I don't have a background in theology so I'm not qualified to comment on the differences between Christianity and Mormonism. Everyone smiled and was gracious, the interior of the temple was more beautiful than the exterior and maybe that was the problem with me- it seemed the hosts wanted the focus on the structure and elaborate furnishings and not on doctrine.
Maybe as you ask more questions and spend more time in the belief system you would find out more about specific aspects of what the Mormons believe and why.
Thanks to Russ/Kingpin68 for driving that night.
"Zombie"
