Revelation & Second Thessalonians (In Brief)

Revelation & Second Thessalonians (In Brief)

Mr. Gore once again provides a fine video lecture. He appears to embrace a largely preterist approach.

From my archives

Antichrist 2008 

Mounce notes that the preterist position understands the apocalypse from a first-century setting. The events and book of Revelation are not relegated to the future, but are understood to have occurred by the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70, or the fall of the Roman Empire in AD 476. Mounce (1990: 41). Mounce explains that a major problem with this position is that the decisive victory over evil described in Revelation is not achieved. John views the overthrow of evil occurring with the defeat of Antichrist. Mounce (1990: 42).

The futurist view is more common among scholars and understands that Revelation describes a final victory over evil. Some scholars regard everything after Revelation 4:1 as taking place in the future. But, Mounce sees this as problematic as the book still needs to be relevant for the first-century reader. Mounce (1990: 42). Mounce reasons that no single approach is sufficient. The preterist is correct that the book of Revelation must be understood in a first-century context. The futurist is correct that the book is centrally eschatological describing how this age will come to an end. Mounce (1990: 44). Mounce also explains the value of the historist approach which sees the importance of specific fulfilment in history. A problem which this view is that it is quite subjective in connecting certain historical events to Scripture. Mounce (1990: 42). The benefits of the idealistic approach are that God can be seen as guiding the events. But, Mounce notes that the idealitic approach may lack a distinct consummation of events. Mounce (1990: 43). Its allegorical method tends to lessen the historical nature of future events. Mounce (1990: 43).
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Mounce explains that a major problem with this position is that the decisive victory over evil described in Revelation is not achieved. John views the overthrow of evil occurring with the defeat of Antichrist. Mounce (1990: 42).

Agreed. This problem is echoed in 2 Thessalonians:

Here 2 Thessalonians 2: 7-10...

7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His [f]coming; 9 that is, the one whose [g]coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and [h]signs and false wonders, 10 and with [i]all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God [j]will send upon them [k]a deluding influence so that they will believe [l]what is false, 12 in order that they all may be [m]judged who did not believe the truth, but [n]took pleasure in wickedness.

Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His [f]coming; 

I take it this event, the second coming of Jesus Christ, should be interpreted with a significant level of literalness. However, I admit that the Lord slaying the lawless one with the breath of His mouth is quite possibly significantly figurative language.

But the second coming of Christ is a literal, biblical and theological event of the future. In my mind, the potentially figurative nature of Christ's breath and the slaying of the opposition does not cancel out the literalness of the second advent. Actual (non-fiction, non-mythological) historical events can be described with degrees of literal and figurative language.

Jesus Christ literally destroys the lawless one at this point, in some context to do with breath from his mouth. Possibly, it may also be quite literal language, as Jesus Christ as the God-man would be quite capable of destroying an opponent that way.

Regardless, it does not appear this event occurred in the New Testament era.

Biblically and historically, this has not yet occurred.

Peter E. Cousins opines that the Apostle Paul here is not providing a time table for these events in 2 Thessalonians. (1470). Instead the focus is the victory of Jesus Christ and God. (1470). This would allow for my view that this event is yet to some.

Mounce reasons that no single approach is sufficient. The preterist is correct that the book of Revelation must be understood in a first-century context. The futurist is correct that the book is centrally eschatological describing how this age will come to an end. Mounce (1990: 44). 

Reasonable and well-stated from Dr. Mounce. I do find the preterist view quite agreeable on many points.

COUSINS, PETER E (1986) 'First and Second Thessalonians' in F.F. Bruce (ed.), The International Bible Commentary, Grand Rapids, Zondervan.

MOUNCE, ROBERT H. (1990) The Book of Revelation, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

Sicily, Google+

C.S. Lewis & Tribulation (MPhil Edit)

York: scan

MPhil, Bangor University, 2003: The Problem of Evil: Anglican and Baptist Perspectives

PhD, University of Wales, Trinity Saint David, Lampeter, 2010: Theodicy and Practical Theology

From MPhil 2003

C.S. Lewis notes that there is a paradox concerning tribulation in Christianity. Lewis makes a good point, that God uses evil for the greater good but human disobedience to God is still sin. He stated: "Now the fact God can make complex good out of simple evil does not excuse--though by mercy it may save--those who do the simple evil." Lewis (l940)(1996: 111).

God can use evil for the betterment of his creation overall, but this does not change his character, and those who oppose his will still sin because their motives are not good as are God’s. However, God remains non-sinful and thus not a contradictory being.

John Calvin had stated:

Then we shall understand that God is not made the author of evil deeds when he said to lead the ungodly where he wills and to accomplish and execute his work through them, but rather we shall acknowledge that he is a wonderfully expert craftsman who can use even bad tools well. We shall be compelled to admire his justice, which not only finds a way through iniquity but also employs that very iniquity to a good end. Calvin (1543) (1996: 40).

So, from the words of both Lewis and Calvin, the idea is being put forward that God is in ultimate, but not robotic control of his creation. His creation sins against God with anti-God motives, and thus are guilty of crimes against him. God, however, is still able to use these evil works for the greater good.

This means that tribulation, although largely caused by sins of human beings, and perhaps at times, fallen angels, is still being used by God for his final purposes of good. Since tribulation is necessary in redemption, then it will not stop until the world is fully redeemed or no longer seen as redeemable. Lewis’ point here was that social improvements were good, but they were not the ultimate answer. He stated: "I am only reminding the reader that a particular medicine is not to be mistaken for the elixir of life." Lewis (1940)(1996: 115). Lewis stated that reform from the hands of humanity can only bring so much good, but that a heaven on earth can only take place through God’s direct intervention through Christ.

CALVIN,J.(1539)(1998) Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book II.

CALVIN, J. (1543)(1998) The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, Translated by G.I. Davies, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.

CALVIN, J. (1553)(1952) Job, Translated by Leroy Nixon, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House. 

LEWIS, C.S. (1961)(1983) A Grief Observed, London, Faber and Faber.

LEWIS, C.S. (1941)(1990) The Screwtape Letters, Uhrichsville, Ohio, Barbour and Company. 

LEWIS, C.S. (1940)(1996) The Problem of Pain, San Francisco, Harper-Collins.

Antiochus IV Epiphanes

 Not my photo: Southern Europe? Southern Hemisphere?

Antiochus IV Epiphanes

Britannica

Cited

Antiochus IV Epiphanes

Seleucid King

'By: Hans Volkmann 

Cited

Antiochus IV Epiphanes, (Greek: “God Manifest”) also called Antiochus Epimanes (the Mad), (born c. 215 BC—died 164, Tabae, Iran), Seleucid king of the Hellenistic Syrian kingdom who reigned from 175 to 164 BC. As a ruler he was best known for his encouragement of Greek culture and institutions. His attempts to suppress Judaism brought on the Wars of the Maccabees.'

Bible Hub: International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

Cited

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

'Antiochus Epiphanes ANTIOCHUS IV; ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES (Epiphanes, e-pif'-a-naz, "Illustrious"): Son of Antiochus III who became king after his brother, Seleucus IV, had been murdered by Heliodorus. As a boy Antiochus lived at Rome as a hostage. The Pergamene monarchs, Eumenes and Attalus, succeeded in placing upon the throne the brother of Seleucus, although Heliodorus had wished to ascend the throne himself. The young king was even more enterprising than his father...'

Cited

'While Antiochus was on a second campaign in Egypt, he heard of the siege of Jerusalem. He returned immediately, slew many thousands of the inhabitants and robbed the temple of its treasures (1 Maccabees 1:20-24; 2 Maccabees 5:11-21). By his prohibition of the Jewish worship and his introduction or substitution of the worship of the Olympian Zeus (1 Maccabees 1:54; 2 Maccabees 6:2; Ant, XII, v, 4) he brought about the insurrection of the Jews, under the Maccabees, upon whom he made an unsuccessful war in 167-164 B.C. After this war Antiochus retired to the eastern provinces and died, after having failed in an attack on the temple of the Sun in Elymais, in Persia.'

Catholic Dictionary

'Term ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION

Definition

The omen of future calamity, predicted by the prophet Daniel and referred to by Christ (Daniel 9:27, Matthew 24:15). Daniel seems to be foretelling the erection of a statue of Zeus in the Temple of Jerusalem by Antiochus Epiphanes (168 B.C.). Christ applied the prophecy to the siege of Jerusalem by the pagan enemies of Rome in A.D. 70. This was to be a sign for the Christians to flee Jerusalem.'
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Kevan explains that the term Abomination of Desolation is also found in Mark 13: 14. (3). Most expositors over the years have reasoned that Daniel alludes to the desecration if the temple by Antiochus Epiphanes on December 15, 168 BC. (3). Here a pagan alter was built on the site of the alter of burnt sacrifices and ten days later, heathen sacrifices were offered. (3)

Kevan, like many scholars, reasons Jesus Christ is foretelling the desecration of the temple in 70 AD by the Roman Empire. (4)

There is also a futurist interpretation (s) that the abomination of desolation relates to, in a third way,  similar acts of the antichrist in a future third Jewish temple.

This view is often supported within dispensationalism.

I am certainly open-minded in regard to biblical interpretations of eschatology, but in many contexts find dispensationalism too speculative with Scripture and theology. Notice, that Kevan does not speculate in a futurist manner within his entry.

A theological point that comes to mind is that scripturally and within religious history, God has at times allowed his sacred places of worship to be desecrated and destroyed  by forces and authorities that are enemies of the people, by the aggressor's choice, that publicly worship the God of the Hebrew Bible and New Testament.

This is consistent with how the triune God works within this present realm.

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE) (1939) (2018), Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

KEVAN, E.F. (1996) ‘Abomination of Desolation’ in Walter A. Elwell (ed.) Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.

Calvin on perseverance (PhD Edit)

Biaritz, France: Travel+Leisure: Facebook

Perseverance is an area, in my opinion, where the Lord has tested me very much. Not as in faith in the gospel or holding to biblical theology and sound philosophy. Instead, I have been tested to persevere in areas of daily Christian living when problems continue, and I have not always responded positively to this work from God. But, God’s will be done.

A limited sample of Calvin's related work from my PhD

MPhil, Bangor University, 2003: The Problem of Evil: Anglican and Baptist Perspectives 

PhD, University of Wales, Trinity Saint David, Lampeter, 2010: Theodicy and Practical Theology

Calvin writes that God does a work of perseverance in a believer, so by grace the believer stays in Christ for life. Calvin (1543)(1996: 178-179). God’s work of perseverance in elected individuals is clearly not retaliation, but a divine plan to save sinful persons despite the fact they are worthy of punishment. Calvin (1543)(1996: 37). Instead, the atoning and resurrection work of Christ allows the elect to avoid the penalty for sin, being part of the divine plan of salvation. Augustine (398-399)(1992: 303). Calvin (1543)(1996: 37, 178-179).

AUGUSTINE (388-395)(1964) On Free Choice of the Will, Translated by Anna S.Benjamin and L.H. Hackstaff, Upper Saddle River, N.J., Prentice Hall.

AUGUSTINE (398-399)(1992) Confessions, Translated by Henry Chadwick, Oxford, Oxford University Press. AUGUSTINE (400-416)(1987)(2004) On the Trinity, Translated by Reverend Arthur West Haddan, in Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series One, Volume 3, Denver, The Catholic Encyclopedia. http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130104.htm

AUGUSTINE (421)(1998) Enchiridion, Translated by J.F. Shaw, Denver, The Catholic Encyclopedia. http://www.knight.org/advent

AUGUSTINE (426)(1958) The City of God, Translated by Gerald G. Walsh, Garden City, New York, Image Books.

AUGUSTINE (427)(1997) On Christian Doctrine, Translated by D.W. Robertson Jr., Upper Saddle River, N.J., Prentice Hall.

AUGUSTINE (427b)(1997) On Christian Teaching, Translated by R.P.H. Green, Oxford, Oxford University Press.

CALVIN, JOHN (1539)(1998) The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book II, Translated by Henry Beveridge, Grand Rapids, The Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html

CALVIN, JOHN (1539)(1998) The Institutes of the Christian Religion, Book IV, Translated by Henry Beveridge, Grand Rapids, The Christian Classic Ethereal Library, Wheaton College. http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.html

CALVIN, JOHN (1540)(1973) Romans and Thessalonians, Translated by Ross Mackenzie, Grand Rapids, Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

CALVIN, JOHN (1543)(1996) The Bondage and Liberation of the Will, Translated by G.I. Davies, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House.

CALVIN, JOHN (1550)(1978) Concerning Scandals, Translated by John W. Fraser, Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company.

CALVIN, JOHN (1552)(1995) Acts, Translated by Watermark, Nottingham, Crossway Books. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1553)(1952) Job, Translated by Leroy Nixon, Grand Rapids, Baker Book House. 

CALVIN, JOHN (1554)(1965) Genesis, Translated by John King, Edinburgh, The Banner of Truth Trust.

MOLTMANN, JÜRGEN (1999) ‘Perseverance’, in Alan Richardson and John Bowden (eds.), New Dictionary of Christian Theology, Kent, SCM Press Ltd.

WHITE, R.E.O. (1996) ‘Perseverance’, in Walter A. Elwell (ed.), Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Grand Rapids, Baker Books.